[jeffford76]

Scoring: MPs

---

Unopposed bidding. You play minorwood, but only if the suit was agreed before the 4m bid.

[655321]

4♠ TLA

[Phil]

Is this a question to see if we can count to two?

If you play minorwood, it is on here. None of this "agree to it before now" business.

[jeffford76]

Phil, on Nov 18 2009, 03:25 PM, said:

If you play minorwood, it is on here. None of this "agree to it before now" business.

Not too surprisingly, regardless of what you think I should be playing, I have posted the actual agreement that was in effect when the hand came up.

[Phil]

jeffford76, on Nov 18 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

Phil, on Nov 18 2009, 03:25 PM, said:

If you play minorwood, it is on here. None of this "agree to it before now" business.

Not too surprisingly, regardless of what you think I should be playing, I have posted the actual agreement that was in effect when the hand came up.

Then you're on your own. GL.

[dcohio]

Wouldn't the jump to 4c here indicate agreeing to clubs and minorwood? He's the one who knows he has extra values...

Reply as if it were minorwood, and get to your slam.

[655321]

Ha ha, too funny!

I thought the OP explanation was very clear, but perhaps it would have been even clearer to write "4♣ was not minorwood".

Just to clarify, my 4♠ was a cue bid not a response to minorwood.

[jdonn]

I'm not sure what partner's doing, but I'm not passing since even if some kind of invitational hand he should have great playing strength which matches nicely with my controls. So it can't hurt to bid 4♠ in case that also helps with whatever the heck he is doing.

[dcohio]

jeffford76, on Nov 18 2009, 04:51 PM, said:

You play minorwood, but only if the suit was agreed before the 4m bid.

_________________
Ha ha, too funny!

I thought the OP explanation was very clear, but perhaps it would have been even clearer to write "4♣ was not minorwood".

1c-1H-2c-4c

Explain to me on this auction then how the suit can be agreed before 4c?

There's not a single forcing bid here that responder can make and get to minorwood that "sets" clubs as the trump suit. 3c is passable, 3d is a 1 round force but says nothing about clubs, 3 hearts is a signoff, 3 spades is a 1 round force but says nothing about clubs, and 3NT is a signoff. Bidding RKCB may get you past a "safe" 5c. Opener has already shown a minimum with 6 clubs, and responder is trying to do something. If he wanted to stop in game he would bid 5c, and if he didn't care about game, he'd bid 3c. If you don't play this as minorwood, then why are you playing the convention?

[jdonn]

dcohio, on Nov 18 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

jeffford76, on Nov 18 2009, 04:51 PM, said:

You play minorwood, but only if the suit was agreed before the 4m bid.

_________________
Ha ha, too funny!

I thought the OP explanation was very clear, but perhaps it would have been even clearer to write "4♣ was not minorwood".

1c-1H-2c-4c

Explain to me on this auction then how the suit can be agreed before 4c?

There's not a single forcing bid here that responder can make and get to minorwood that "sets" clubs as the trump suit. 3c is passable, 3d is a 1 round force but says nothing about clubs, 3 hearts is a signoff, 3 spades is a 1 round force but says nothing about clubs, and 3NT is a signoff. Bidding RKCB may get you past a "safe" 5c. Opener has already shown a minimum with 6 clubs, and responder is trying to do something. If he wanted to stop in game he would bid 5c, and if he didn't care about game, he'd bid 3c. If you don't play this as minorwood, then why are you playing the convention?

2♦ then 3♣ which is forcing.

[Jlall]

I don't think 4C is forcing. I think it shows an invitational hand that is distributional, something like x Axxxxx xx QJxx fits the bill. This hand cannot bid 3C obviously, but 2D then 3C is misleading. This hand has no desire to play 3N. It wants partner to focus on controls and shape rather than anything else. Slam is possible opposite the nuts, and stopping in 4C is also possible opposite a bad hand for this auction (KQx x Kxx KTxxxx).

I have made this bid before and didn't think it was confusing, if I wanted to force I would always bid 2D first.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4S, a cue, showing a top honor.

It is a good idea, to play, that the first cue is not based on shortage, i.e. that it
showes a top honor.
Hence the cue would deny AK in diamond and hearts, that the king of spade is
a single, is a coincidence.

And using this cue bidding agrement, you basically have also a "minorwood" even
without this specific agreement, 4S would send this message in the current auction,
so it does not matter, if you play 4C as minorwood.

And for me 4C is forcing, I dont play 4C, I would only consider playing 4C, if the
partnership made a real effort to reach 3NT, which was is not the case here.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: We dont play minorwood at all, cue bidding + 4NT works fine.

[mike777]

jeffford76, on Nov 18 2009, 04:51 PM, said:

Scoring: MPs

---

Unopposed bidding. You play minorwood, but only if the suit was agreed before the 4m bid.

2d is game forcing so.....4c is not game forcing.....long long clubs.

[jeffford76]

Is 1C - 1H - 2C - 2D as game forcing common? This is the first I've heard of it, and BWS disagrees.

Relevant quote:
After a one-level suit response and opener’s simple same-suit rebid:
( a third-suit non-reverse at the two level is forcing for one round, and responder may pass if opener bids two of responder’s first suit or three of opener’s suit;

I agree it makes sense to play 4m as RKC here, but that wasn't the agreement at the time. I actually had the other hand, and thought 4C was forcing, which apparently most people don't. So apparently we both screwed up. (We ended up the only +170 with 6NT cold.)

[Phil]

jeffford76, on Nov 19 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

Is 1C - 1H - 2C - 2D as game forcing common? This is the first I've heard of it, and BWS disagrees.

Relevant quote:
After a one-level suit response and opener’s simple same-suit rebid:
( a third-suit non-reverse at the two level is forcing for one round, and responder may pass if opener bids two of responder’s first suit or three of opener’s suit;

I agree it makes sense to play 4m as RKC here, but that wasn't the agreement at the time. I actually had the other hand, and thought 4C was forcing, which apparently most people don't. So apparently we both screwed up. (We ended up the only +170 with 6NT cold.)

I play 1♣ - 1M - 2♣ - 2♦ as invitational or better. It also denies 4♥.

Don't take too much stock in BWS because it tends to be behind the curve on some things.

[aguahombre]

2 points:

1C-1H-2C-2D -----Jeff, whether 2D is GF or not, the followup in clubs is what makes the GF, and 2D is not passable.

4S seems right because of what was previously said, and also because it is the right answer to m-wood, in case partner is not on the same wavelength

[helene_t]

Either Justin must be right or minorwood must be on. Or are we supposed to ask for aces with 4♦ now?

Anyway, 4♠.

[Jlall]

jeffford76, on Nov 19 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

Is 1C - 1H - 2C - 2D as game forcing common? This is the first I've heard of it, and BWS disagrees.

Relevant quote:
After a one-level suit response and opener’s simple same-suit rebid:
( a third-suit non-reverse at the two level is forcing for one round, and responder may pass if opener bids two of responder’s first suit or three of opener’s suit;

I agree it makes sense to play 4m as RKC here, but that wasn't the agreement at the time. I actually had the other hand, and thought 4C was forcing, which apparently most people don't. So apparently we both screwed up. (We ended up the only +170 with 6NT cold.)

I think BWS has standard right. That means if you bid 2D and then bid 3C it's forcing though (else just raise directly).