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wtp or non-wtp

#1 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 05:47

imps favorable

xxx
AKQxxxx
AJx
-

1♥-1♠-p-p
?

The guy I kibbed maneuvered this hand very nicely and should have gotten a nice result. How would you bid it?

edit: I don't actually agree the way the guy tried but he was definitely rewarded
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 06:01

2H
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 06:10

2H or 3H.
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#4 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 06:25

I try 3♥.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#5 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 06:46

2♥?!?!?!?

I'll bid 4♥. At first I was going to say 3♥ is fine, but the more I think about it the less I think so. Partner will never know a diamond honor is huge but a club honor is useless, so I think it's pointless to make some invitational bid and expect him to make a reasonable evaluation.
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#6 User is offline   shyams 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 06:48

At the table, I'd probably bid 3H with this hand.

However, I was wondering if a re-opening double will be better.

Partner is most unlikely to have a penalty pass and will surely bid. We then follow up with a cheapest bid in hearts? We need to know where partner's values are to determine right level...
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#7 User is offline   vuroth 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 07:34

Any honours in clubs or spades, outside of the ace of spades, in partner's hands are likely of no help to me. The K or Q of diamonds seems to be a small target to shoot at. Especially when the queen might not be enough.
Still decidedly intermediate - don't take my guesses as authoritative.

"gwnn" said:

rule number 1 in efficient forum reading:
hanp does not always mean literally what he writes.
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#8 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 07:46

I'm in for 3♥.
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#9 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 07:57

jdonn, on Oct 21 2009, 07:46 AM, said:

2♥?!?!?!?

I'll bid 4♥. At first I was going to say 3♥ is fine, but the more I think about it the less I think so. Partner will never know a diamond honor is huge but a club honor is useless, so I think it's pointless to make some invitational bid and expect him to make a reasonable evaluation.

If you are going to game why don't you try for slam and self-splinter
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#10 User is offline   maggieb 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 08:04

3♥ seems right, I have a hard time believing that we will miss too many games by bidding 3♥. On the hands where 3♥ is already down, bidding 4♥ risks going for a digit.

I also don't think 4♥ has a great tactical upside to it, so overall I think it's just an overbid.

2♥ is just nonsense though.
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#11 User is offline   ONEferBRID 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 08:18

3S! ( stop-ask )
Don Stenmark ( TWOferBRIDGE )
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 08:34

maggieb, on Oct 21 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

3♥ seems right, I have a hard time believing that we will miss too many games by bidding 3♥. On the hands where 3♥ is already down, bidding 4♥ risks going for a digit.

I also don't think 4♥ has a great tactical upside to it, so overall I think it's just an overbid.

2♥ is just nonsense though.

You may be right, regarding 3♥/4♥ and missing games. But I think there is a fair tactical upside to 4♥, as there seems to be a reasonable chance the overcaller has a good hand with spades and clubs.
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#13 User is offline   maggieb 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 08:57

jdonn, on Oct 21 2009, 09:34 AM, said:

maggieb, on Oct 21 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

3♥ seems right, I have a hard time believing that we will miss too many games by bidding 3♥. On the hands where 3♥ is already down, bidding 4♥ risks going for a digit.

I also don't think 4♥ has a great tactical upside to it, so overall I think it's just an overbid.

2♥ is just nonsense though.

You may be right, regarding 3♥/4♥ and missing games. But I think there is a fair tactical upside to 4♥, as there seems to be a reasonable chance the overcaller has a good hand with spades and clubs.

Sure, but he didn't bid Michaels, so he probably has at most 4 clubs. Unless his partner has 6, I'd say that any number of clubs they bid is likely to be bad for them, especially since I wasn't even particularly convinced I could make 3♥ or 4♥. Consequently I considered the "avoiding a club save" factor to be more or less a wash.
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#14 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 10:21

3♥ looks like the right value bid.

I'm not going to drive myself nuts with permutations about what the other three players might or might not have, which is tertiary at best, and irrelevant at worst.
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#15 User is offline   Jlall 

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Posted 2009-October-21, 15:09

Guess I'll cast the first vote for 2S.
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