[nigel_k]

Scoring: IMP

---

The bidding starts 1♥-2♦-3♦-3♠. How should it continue? Please also provide an alternative if you would not start this way.

[jdonn]

1♥ 2♦
2♥ 2♠
3♦

Up to that point everything is clear. Now north has a choice between 4♦ (I think that's better) or 3♥. I would continue these ways from there.

------ 4♦
4♥ 4NT
etc.

------ 3♥
3NT 4♦
4♥ 4♠
4NT

The first auction is straightforward. On the second north can't bid keycard as easily IMO since south showed something in clubs and his cuebid was more forced. But south is clearly worth it based on north's actions so you still get there.

There will probably be much argument/discussion/disagreement about everything after 3♦, but in a normal 2/1 style I think the first part of the auction is completely clear and it would be a mistake to raise diamonds directly.

[Cyberyeti]

I normally play 1♥-2♦-3♦ shows 4 so the auction would go something like:

1♥-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♦-4♣(A, K, singleton, void)
4♥(A or K)-4N(RKCB)
5♥(2 without)-6♦

[Jlall]

When will people learn that bidding 3 of a minor willy nilly is just not good and causes all sorts of problems. Just compare:

1H 2D
3D 3S = Who knows! Probably spades stopped and not clubs stopped for the time being. What if responder had clubs stopped but not spades stopped? Who knows! What is responders shape? Who knows! How many diamonds does opener have? Who knows!

and

1H 2D
2H 2S
3D 3H

Oh, responder is 4252 or 4261! We know a lot more and we're at a low level. We know that opener has 3 diamonds and not 4 diamonds, great!

Anyways either way it seems like north will bid 4D at some point, south will cuebid hearts, and north will cuebid spades showing club support (or in some variations north will get a 4C bid in). South can then bid keycard.

[mike777]

nigel_k, on Oct 20 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

<!-- NORTHSOUTH begin --><table border=1> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>Dealer:</td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Vul:</td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Scoring:</td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table border='1'> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> AK102 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> 105 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> KQJ963 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> 9 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> <tr> <th> <table> <tr> <th class='spades'>♠</th> <td> 3 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='hearts'>♥</th> <td> AKJ63 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='diamonds'>♦</th> <td> A107 </td> </tr> <tr> <th class='clubs'>♣</th> <td> J1073 </td> </tr> </table> </th> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- NORTHSOUTH end -->

The bidding starts 1♥-2♦-3♦-3♠. How should it continue? Please also provide an alternative if you would not start this way.

Given this start I would bid 4d now, deny club cue I hope, we can still stop in 5d. If pard has small clubs we may be down when 3nt makes.

[ONEferBRID]

[aguahombre]

A lot of good systems seem to be available for follow-up, after 1H-2D. And only Mike777 chose to answer the "what now" part of the question.

Then there are some 2/1 players for whom a raise to 3D eliminates some of responder's concerns right off the bat. It denies 6 hearts, denies 4 spades, and denies a 5332 hand, among other things not relevent to the given problem --making it not quite so "willy nilly". On the OP's auction, opener can bid 4H/3S, which would easily get the partnership to 6D. Maybe this is not optimal for all possible layouts, but it is ok on this one.

[Fluffy]

I have problems to bid slam since nobody has significant extras and slam is good for the club holdings.

For example:

1♥-2♦
2♥-2♠
3♦-3♥


At this point South has to bid 4♦ since anything else seems to agree with hearts as trumps.

And now north won't know if his singleton club is good or not, and he won't even have a chance to bid it since he miust cue 4♠. And south has slight extras now, but he has no clu control, will he move on?.

[rhm]

1♥--2♦
3♦--3♠
3NT--5♣ --> Splinter
5♥--5♠
6♦

Simple and effective. Splinter in later rounds are still often overlooked.

3♠ is not clear. 5♣ could have been bid one round earlier over 3♦.

5♦ is reasonably safe from North's perspective.
This would be tougher at MP.

Rainer Herrmann

[Echognome]

Jlall, on Oct 20 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

When will people learn that bidding 3 of a minor willy nilly is just not good and causes all sorts of problems. Just compare:

1H 2D
3D 3S = Who knows! Probably spades stopped and not clubs stopped for the time being. What if responder had clubs stopped but not spades stopped? Who knows! What is responders shape? Who knows! How many diamonds does opener have? Who knows!

and

1H 2D
2H 2S
3D 3H

Oh, responder is 4252 or 4261! We know a lot more and we're at a low level. We know that opener has 3 diamonds and not 4 diamonds, great!

Anyways either way it seems like north will bid 4D at some point, south will cuebid hearts, and north will cuebid spades showing club support (or in some variations north will get a 4C bid in). South can then bid keycard.

I agree in general, but I think your point can be made that it's always better to make the cheapest possible rebid and play relay... or else have your own bids be very descriptive and your partner relay.

[kenrexford]

Whatever you do, North shows interest.

This is a difficult auction, though. Any time Responder's 2/1 is in the suit immediately below the opened major, life is difficult. A 2♦ response to a 1♥ opening causes obvious difficulties, because space ends up cramped by necessity.

If Opener's solution at rebid is 3♦, this preempts the auction, as noted, and leaves complications as to what 3♠ means.

In this actual set of hands, assurance of a sixth heart would enable a 3♥ raise of the 2♥ rebid, but people seem to want 2♥ to be waiting, perhaps because of the one-under scenario.

3♣ is yet another option, but this also is preemptive and leaves the partnership with little space to resolve strength below 3NT. It also delays and may end up burying the diamond fit in practice, unless Opener is prepared to bid 4♦, which means bypassing 3NT as the plan at rebid.

My personal thoughts are that this problem should be resolved, in my style, by preserving 2♥ as a rebid showing a sixth heart. If Opener lacks a sixth heart and lacks ability to bid 2NT, he might be able to rebid a third suit. If rebidding the third suit seems problematic, such as a weak high reverse, then in that situation a raise might be made weak, or even a splinter (3♠) with the right hand. This is really close to a splinter for me, except that the diamond contribution is poor.

3♣ only makes sense if prepared to rebid 4♦. If that option will be elected, it should be different from the splinter (which is why I expect a splinter to show poor clubs in my approach).

What to do next, precisely, with each solution is so much a function of style of general biddiong and style of cuebidding that suggestions from me as to "what next" seem pointlessly complicated. Too many "if this, then's."

[jdonn]

That was quite a long post to say you don't know how to answer.

[cherdanno]

jdonn, on Oct 21 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

That was quite a long post to say you don't know how to answer.

Don't tempt him, please don't.....

[sathyab]

jdonn, on Oct 20 2009, 05:20 PM, said:

1♥ 2♦
2♥ 2♠
3♦

Up to that point everything is clear. Now north has a choice between 4♦ (I think that's better) or 3♥. I would continue these ways from there.

------ 4♦
4♥ 4NT
etc.

------ 3♥
3NT 4♦
4♥ 4♠
4NT

The first auction is straightforward. On the second north can't bid keycard as easily IMO since south showed something in clubs and his cuebid was more forced. But south is clearly worth it based on north's actions so you still get there.

There will probably be much argument/discussion/disagreement about everything after 3♦, but in a normal 2/1 style I think the first part of the auction is completely clear and it would be a mistake to raise diamonds directly.

If you play kickback it complicates matters when adjacent suits are in the picture. In the first auction for instance, over responder's 4♦, you would want to be able to bid ♥s naturally. kickback and possibly show a ♥ cue. As it's important especially at MP to bid a six-bagger naturally, I usually play 4♥ natural, 4♠ as kickback and 4nt as a spade cue in these auctions. It'd be nice on a hand like this though to show a heart cue rather than bid naturally or kickback, but I don't know how to squeeze that in.

[aguahombre]

sathyab, on Oct 21 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

It'd be nice on a hand like this though to show a heart cue rather than bid naturally or kickback, but I don't know how to squeeze that in.

It will fit. Having a sixth heart is long past possible, and this hand is one reason we stopped using kickback. But this is all related back to the space we consumed by raising diamonds, and the things we denied by raising diamonds. So 4H cue seems to work.

[dellache]

It looks as if you bid 3♦ whenever you have a diamond fit : this poses a difficult problem because you can still play in 3 strains (NT,♦,♥), at 4 different levels (3NT, 4♥, 5♦, 6Red). Then the 3♠ bid will of course be nebulous (to say the least), and there's of course no way of solving all the possible hands : you have to make some bets.

It leads that one probably should bid 3♦ ONLY with specific hands (the choice I've made with one of my pards, playing SAYC+gadgets, being to bid 3♦ with significant extras, mildly slamish).

I don't know how to solve your problem if you bid 3♦.

If opener bids 2♥ instead, I'll bid a nebulous 2♠ (natural or strength), and will be pleased to hear 3♦. Now the 5 losers hand becomes enormous. I would now bid 4♣ expressing my enthousiasm. The fact that South didnot bid 3♦ in first place now allows him to view his hand as maximal, and slam will be easily reached after BW.

You suggested an alternative : play a relay system, those hands become bread and butter.

[sathyab]

aguahombre, on Oct 21 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

sathyab, on Oct 21 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

It'd be nice on a hand like this though to show a heart cue rather than bid naturally or kickback, but I don't know how to squeeze that in.

It will fit. Having a sixth heart is long past possible, and this hand is one reason we stopped using kickback. But this is all related back to the space we consumed by raising diamonds, and the things we denied by raising diamonds. So 4H cue seems to work.

Not related to consuming space by raising ♦s immediately. As I said, in the first auction, where it went 1♥-2♦-2♥-2♠-3♦-4♦, it's entirely possible that opener has six ♥s and 3♦s, unless you think that he should bid 3♥ over 2♠ instead of 3♦.

[aguahombre]

aguahombre, on Oct 20 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

Then there are some 2/1 players for whom a raise to 3D eliminates some of responder's concerns right off the bat.  It  denies 6 hearts, denies 4 spades, and denies a 5332 hand, among other things not relevent to the given problem --making it not quite so "willy nilly".

From this, dellache concludes, "it looks as though you bid 3D whenever you have a diamond fit...." a conclusion not based on what was written.

Again, the gadgets put forth in this string are good. Again, I was trying to answer the question about what to do --absent those gadgets -- within the context that 3D was reasonable for this pair if they thought 2H, 2N, and 3C showed different hand types, and that failure to bid 2s denied 4 of them.

[nigel_k]

Great answers, thanks everyone. I like rhm's auction and am also closer to being persuaded that a 2♥ rebid is best.