[paulg]

Scoring: IMP

(2♠) Dbl (3♠) ?

---

What's your poison?

If you double, then how do you plan to bid after a 4♣, 4♦ or 4♥ response?

Paul

[zheddh]

4NT for minors?

[the hog]

X. Bid 4D over 4C, raise 4D to 5 and pass 4H, as this should show 5.

[Codo]

I would bid 5 diamond, with no big sorrows.

Pass is out, double shows two places to play, 3 NT a little bid more then 8xxx and what else can I do?

If we play in a 4-3 fit, this can be ugly, but at least the short hand will ruff.

[andy_h]

I will double.

Over 4♣ I will bid 4♠ which will agree clubs. I guess I will luck out on being in the 4-4 diamond fit if partner is 1345 and if partner actually has 1444 he should probably bid 4♦ knowing that if my 2 places to play were in clubs and hearts I can remove 4♦ to 4♥.

Over 4♦ I will bid 4♠ as well.

Over 4♥ is a bit tougher. Some decent minimums can most likely take 11 tricks making 5lvl safe like x AJxxx Qxx AKxx or maybe we can still belong in 6♦ with x AJxxx QJxx AKx so I think I will still bid 4♠ even though this may first assume hearts are agreed.

I don't particularly like what others have suggested. I think we can still have slam potential as we have extras for our responsive x so I definitely will want to investigate that whilst trying to look for our best fit. If I bid say 4♠ that wastes a whole level of bidding without any suit implied. If we bid 4NT partner will always bid 5♣ with say 1444 or 1534.

[Jlall]

andy_h, on Sep 22 2009, 06:38 AM, said:

and if partner actually has 1444 he should probably bid 4♦ knowing that if my 2 places to play were in clubs and hearts I can remove 4♦ to 4♥.

Bet you wouldn't be saying that if you were 4234!

[Free]

I'd just bid 4♦

[gnasher]

Does double followed by 4♦ show x44x? Or would that hand double and bid 4♥?

[Jlall]

gnasher, on Sep 22 2009, 07:16 AM, said:

Does double followed by 4♦ show x44x? Or would that hand double and bid 4♥?

X then 4D shows H+D, X then 4H shows H+C imo.

[mcphee]

I need to start with dble. I do not want to blast 5D when I could easily make 6.
over 4C response I will try 4D and should partner bid 4H I will bounce us to 6C. If they raise D, I will also.
over 4D I will try 4S.
over 4H I will try 6D, I think partner must be 5-4-4 to bid 4H

[ONEferBRID]

cardsharp, on Sep 22 2009, 04:07 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(2♠) Dbl (3♠) ?

---

What's your poison?

If you double, then how do you plan to bid after a 4♣, 4♦ or 4♥ response?

Paul

A DBL by Advancer is NOT a Responsive DBL.

a) 1M - X - 2M - X = T/O for the minors because
if you have the other Major ( oM ), you just bid it .

So analogously:
b ) 2M - X - 3M - X = also could/would/should be T/O for the minors ?
The Root and Pavlicek reference also says the 2nd DBL is NOT a Responsive DBL, but it didn't specifically define it as T/O for the minors.
It was just in their list of auctions that were NOT Responsive DBLs.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sooo, what is my plan ?
I will DBL = T/O for the minors.
If partner ( Overcaller) bids 4H, I agree with Hog that it must be 5+ cards and
we could be in slam territory. Partner has to have shortness in Spades.
If 4S now is RKCB, I'll bid that.

If partner bids 4C would 4D next be forcing? then I'd bid that.
If partner bids 4D, I'll cue 4H.

- - Don - -

[Fluffy]

This hand is making me hate this game.

I am bidding 5♦. If my minors were reversed I would try 4NT, but as it is I don't trust partner to find the right fit with equal lenght.

[Hanoi5]

I like The Hog's approach.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Sep 22 2009, 01:17 PM, said:

X then 4D shows H+D, X then 4H shows H+C imo.

I almost agree. I think that:
- Double then 4♦ is non-forcing with the reds
- Double then 4♥ shows four hearts and an unspecified minor, willing to play five of the minor.

[paulg]

gnasher, on Sep 22 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 22 2009, 01:17 PM, said:

X then 4D shows H+D, X then 4H shows H+C imo.

I almost agree. I think that:
- Double then 4♦ is non-forcing with the reds
- Double then 4♥ shows four hearts and an unspecified minor, willing to play five of the minor.

At the table I wondered whether 4♦ would be forcing after 4♣ and it is clearly important.

With so little space I think 4♦ has to be forcing here otherwise you are struggling with many strongish hands. A hand that wishes to make a non-forcing 4♦ showing the red suits just has to bid 4♥ directly over 3♠.

[nige1]

Fluffy, on Sep 22 2009, 09:57 AM, said:

This hand is making me hate this game. I am bidding 5♦. If my minors were reversed I would try 4NT, but as it is I don't trust partner to find the right fit with equal lenght.

I agree with all three of Fluffy's statements
IMO 5♦ = 10, _X = 9, 4♠ = 7, 4N = 6, 5N = 4, 4♦ = 3, 3N = 2.

[pooltuna]

cardsharp, on Sep 22 2009, 04:07 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

(2♠) Dbl (3♠) ?

---

What's your poison?

If you double, then how do you plan to bid after a 4♣, 4♦ or 4♥ response?

Paul

Depends on what I think of partner. Is he a player who has his TOX of 2♠? Or is he a player who thinks a TOX of 2♠ is the same as a TOX of 1♠. If the former I X and raise his suit to slam.

[nigel_k]

Great problem.

I think we want to play (at least) game in partner's longest minor and 5♦ if equal. If we bid 5♦ his minors could be 3-5 and if we bid 4NT he'll usually choose clubs with 4-4. Double and remove 4♣ to 4♦ suggests red suits.

I think double and remove 4♣ to 4NT is the best plan. I hope partner will interpret this as clubs with better diamonds. With primary club support we would bid 4♠ or 5♣.

[Phil]

I'll start with a double. I will probably hear a non-forcing 4♣.

Over 4♣, I will try 4♠ which should be a probe for the best game.

[Jlall]

gnasher, on Sep 22 2009, 10:21 AM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 22 2009, 01:17 PM, said:

X then 4D shows H+D, X then 4H shows H+C imo.

I almost agree. I think that:
- Double then 4♦ is non-forcing with the reds
- Double then 4♥ shows four hearts and an unspecified minor, willing to play five of the minor.

hmm I think X then 4D non forcing is really strange.

How about if X then 4D is forcing doing that, then if partner converts to 4H bidding 5C? Maybe that's how you would bid xx KQxx AKxxx Ax though, but seems kind of cool if it could show this.