[gwnn]

I agree with that skjaeran, my post was more of a wish than what I'd do with a pick-up expert. But I definitely think 4♦=COG is the best treatment, at least as a passed hand. I remember someone (MFA?) said you can use these cuebids as cog OR a strong raise. Interesting.

[inquiry]

4♥, I don't like any reasoning that doesn't raise hearts here.

[cherdanno]

gwnn, on Aug 23 2009, 01:14 PM, said:

I agree with that skjaeran, my post was more of a wish than what I'd do with a pick-up expert. But I definitely think 4♦=COG is the best treatment, at least as a passed hand. I remember someone (MFA?) said you can use these cuebids as cog OR a strong raise. Interesting.

I like to play COG cuebids, but here I would prefer to play 4♦ as good raise. With a COG you can bid...3♠! Now, partner's 4♦ cuebid in reply to 3♠ OTOH makes a lot of sense as COG, and if playing that, 3♠ would become more attractive. Lacking that agreement I would bid 4♥ - bidding 3N with these slow club tricks seems to gamble on a double diamond stopper, or on running hearts AND the club ace (or diamonds 7222 with LHO having no entry).

Edit: Even if 4♦ in replay to 3♠ was COG, it seems still very wrong to bid 3♠. On most hands where we belong in spades rather than hearts, partner would have doubled.

[TylerE]

IMO....

3♠=10
3NT=9
4♥=7
Pass=0

Can't belive that people are advocating pass here. That's a borderline partner asking bid in my book.

[Cascade]

gwnn, on Aug 24 2009, 05:12 AM, said:

4♦ choice of games. I think that's best for a passed hand.

Someone has discovered a new gadget

[Cascade]

benlessard, on Aug 24 2009, 06:11 AM, said:

This is a near perfect hand for 3S. It show 5S and either a H tolerance or a D stopper or rounded 5-5.

... and partner won't expect ♠ AQ10xx or similar

[Cascade]

inquiry, on Aug 24 2009, 06:38 AM, said:

4♥, I don't like any reasoning that doesn't raise hearts here.

At the table I thought (or rather wondered if) partner might think I had heart tolerance if I bid 3♠. But I hated the spade quality for 3♠. But loved the flexibility as 3NT, 4♥ and 4♠ were all in the picture.

Not a regular partner btw.

[skjaeran]

The perfect call now, if it had been legal, would be a double.....

As it is, I think 3♠ is aiming for disaster. Partner might raise on Kx or xxx. I think it's close between 3NT and 4♥, not at all sure which I'd chose at the table.

[benlessard]

Quote

might raise on Kx

Why wont he bid 4D COG with only 2S when you are heavy favorite to have only 5 ?

As for having xxx in spades try to construct a hand where 4H will make and 4S will go down and partner Hearts are not so long/strong that he didnt bid a 4D COG.

It doesnt take a genius to know that

xxx
AKJxxx
A
Axx

facing a doubleton H might play better in 4H than in 4S.

To bid 4H and give up on 3Nt/4S is way too costly. Its very obvious to me that the risk of 4H not being the good spot is higher than the downside of playing 4S going down while 4H is making.

[gwnn]

Cascade, on Aug 23 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

gwnn, on Aug 24 2009, 05:12 AM, said:

4♦ choice of games. I think that's best for a passed hand.

Someone has discovered a new gadget

Not sure what you're talking about. Just because I posted about something twice in less than 1 month does not mean that I learned something and will introduce them in every thread, appropriate or not.

Arend said:

With a COG you can bid...3♠!

Not sure if I agree with that. Partner can pass 3♠, for one. Also, partner will be in a bad spot if we can have anywhere between 5-2 and 7-0. Of course if partner has a COG available, it resolves some of these problems but I don't think all.

[Fluffy]

benlessard, on Aug 23 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Quote

I really doubt 4♦ COG is a mainstream treatment here, it's definitely far from standard. With a pick-up expert I'd expect it to be a strong raise to 4♥.

Agree 100%

Quote

Quote

might raise on Kx

Why wont he bid 4D COG with only 2S when you are heavy favorite to have only 5 ?

I am so sorry but most of us aren't that good that our meta agreements differ from these 2 sequences.

[MFA]

gwnn, on Aug 23 2009, 08:14 PM, said:

I agree with that skjaeran, my post was more of a wish than what I'd do with a pick-up expert. But I definitely think 4♦=COG is the best treatment, at least as a passed hand. I remember someone (MFA?) said you can use these cuebids as cog OR a strong raise. Interesting.

This 4♦ would be a strong raise for me. That's the general rule at the 4+ level.

A cuebid below 3NT could be 2-way as I play. General force (aiming for 3NT or just COG) or a strong raise (hoping to be able to pull 3NT to 4 of partner's suit showing a slam try with genuine support).

[bigmax]

My vote is PASS

If partner think that we have game opposite 7-8 random balanced points - he should just have bid it. My hand is not much better than that

[Fluffy]

bigmax, on Aug 24 2009, 12:13 AM, said:

My vote is PASS

If partner think that we have game opposite 7-8 random balanced points - he should just have bid it. My hand is not much better than that

So you think partner bid 3♥ to play?, the fact that you have 10 more HCP than you could doesn't make you worth a bid? wow.

[Cascade]

Double wow

[WesleyC]

This hand seems perfect for 3S.

I've already passed as dealer at Nil so partner won't play me for a weak 2 in spades (ie a strong 5c spade suit or better).

Strongly disagree with 4D, which should show a strong heart raise. You need to be able to differentiate between hands that have a REAL heart fit and weak hands (or hands that are pressured into raising on a doubleton).

[the hog]

IMO 3S = 0; it is a worse call than Pass.

[bigmax]

Fluffy, on Aug 23 2009, 08:00 PM, said:

bigmax, on Aug 24 2009, 12:13 AM, said:

My vote is PASS

If partner think that we have game opposite 7-8 random balanced points - he should just have bid it. My hand is not much better than that

So you think partner bid 3♥ to play?, the fact that you have 10 more HCP than you could doesn't make you worth a bid? wow.

So you think that partner 3♥ shows 9 top tricks?

Do not remember where I read it , but this concept of bidding over preempt as if partner have 7-8 bal points worked well for me. Correspondinly responder should know that most of his points are already accounted for.

So pass NV, 3NT Vul

[the hog]

bigmax, on Aug 24 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Aug 23 2009, 08:00 PM, said:

bigmax, on Aug 24 2009, 12:13 AM, said:

My vote is PASS

If partner think that we have game opposite 7-8 random balanced points - he should just have bid it. My hand is not much better than that

So you think partner bid 3♥ to play?, the fact that you have 10 more HCP than you could doesn't make you worth a bid? wow.

So you think that partner 3♥ shows 9 top tricks?

Do not remember where I read it , but this concept of bidding over preempt as if partner have 7-8 bal points worked well for me. Correspondinly responder should know that most of his points are already accounted for.

So pass NV, 3NT Vul

Want to play for money?

[bigmax]

[quote name='The_Hog' date='Aug 23 2009, 11:36 PM'] [/QUOTE] Want to play for money? [/QUOTE]

yes , but is this really an argument?

Original problem score is IMP. Obviuosly money bridge overcalls ( and preempts for that matter) would be different.