[aguahombre]

NickRW, on Aug 2 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

I think I tend to agree with the comments in this thread.  But I note that most of the posters appear to be men - what do women actually think?  Or should we take it that the lack of entries - and the lack of comment here - means that they generally agree too?

Nick

Elianna made an attempt. I would guess that discretion has won out, and nobody wants to get into the politics. The "bad vibes" comment stopped short, but introduced it.

[the hog]

Yes I know that, but why is that ironical? If an event exists and the gverning body does nohing about changing it, I guess you play in it.

[peachy]

jjbrr, on Aug 1 2009, 09:07 PM, said:

Do those who feel that Women's only events are unnecessary feel the same way about Seniors events?

I am both a woman and a senior. I see some rationality in senior events but none for women's events or Mixed Pairs. If women really needed their own events for whatever reason, then why does that reason then not exist at senior age? There are no Senior Women's Events... Because there is no reason, I think. It is all just leftovers from the early times when this was a game for men. Cultural changes have affected women in other ways too than their participation in playing bridge, for example we are no longer referred to as Mrs. John Smith. It is high time the bridge world joined the rest of the worlds. Bridge is marketed as a game that "everyone" can play on equal footing. Those who excel in high level competition, usually have the best suited skills for such activity. It just happens to be mental skills instead of physical. And "if" womens events persist, then for equality's sake there should also be men's events.

[awm]

Elianna and I have played the mixed BAM the last few years, and it's one of the most pleasant national events to play in. It seems that both men and women are on their best behavior for their opposite-gender partners. Mixed events are not really implying that one gender is "better at bridge" than the other, they are just a fun format and seemingly more sociable.

[TylerE]

I think the Mixed events are interesting, but purely because they tend to shake up a lot of the established partnerships.

[Elianna]

peachy, on Aug 1 2009, 12:35 AM, said:

I find it extremely peculiar that there are separate Women's events, and agree with nigel-k that it feels like an insult to Women because gender is not a factor in bridge. I haven't really researched the history of why this is so if someone knows, share please how it all began and why the separate events still exist!

Women's events exist from the time that the open events were men's only events. I do not know when Senior events started.

[mike777]

awm, on Aug 2 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Elianna and I have played the mixed BAM the last few years, and it's one of the most pleasant national events to play in. It seems that both men and women are on their best behavior for their opposite-gender partners. Mixed events are not really implying that one gender is "better at bridge" than the other, they are just a fun format and seemingly more sociable.

This would seem to be a huge cultural change from decades ago.

Even in the 80's mixed events were talked about in great scorn by top class players. An event for drunks and etc.........

The words I heard about the 30-70's are much worse........

[Elianna]

mike777, on Aug 2 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

awm, on Aug 2 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Elianna and I have played the mixed BAM the last few years, and it's one of the most pleasant national events to play in. It seems that both men and women are on their best behavior for their opposite-gender partners. Mixed events are not really implying that one gender is "better at bridge" than the other, they are just a fun format and seemingly more sociable.

This would seem to be a huge cultural change from decades ago.

Even in the 80's mixed events were talked about in great scorn by top class players. An event for drunks and etc.........

The words I heard about the 30-70's are much worse........

I was at a dinner where many top female pros were complaining about the mixed BAM being moved ahead in the schedule from Sat-Sun to Thurs-Fri. They were complaining that this meant that it lost some prestige of being the final National Event, and lost some top competitors because more top teams were left in the Spingold/Wagar. Also, it meant lost opportunity for them to make more money.

This means that they at least thought that the event had meaning. I don't know if they still think that it does in the new times. Also, don't know what they thought of the mixed pairs.

[mike777]

Elianna, on Aug 2 2009, 11:46 PM, said:

mike777, on Aug 2 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

awm, on Aug 2 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Elianna and I have played the mixed BAM the last few years, and it's one of the most pleasant national events to play in. It seems that both men and women are on their best behavior for their opposite-gender partners. Mixed events are not really implying that one gender is "better at bridge" than the other, they are just a fun format and seemingly more sociable.

This would seem to be a huge cultural change from decades ago.

Even in the 80's mixed events were talked about in great scorn by top class players. An event for drunks and etc.........

The words I heard about the 30-70's are much worse........

I was at a dinner where many top female pros were complaining about the mixed BAM being moved ahead in the schedule from Sat-Sun to Thurs-Fri. They were complaining that this meant that it lost some prestige of being the final National Event, and lost some top competitors because more top teams were left in the Spingold/Wagar. Also, it meant lost opportunity for them to make more money.

This means that they at least thought that the event had meaning. I don't know if they still think that it does in the new times. Also, don't know what they thought of the mixed pairs.

OP said 14 teams in the event. CAn we all agree around active 70% women in acbl and 30% men?

CAn we agree women control acbl....?

[awm]

There's a lot of difference between the ACBL membership as a whole, and the portion of the membership that competes regularly in national events. The average age is pretty dramatically different for one thing.

Sure, there are more "little old ladies" than "little old men" at your local club. The overall ACBL membership is majority female (to great degree because women live longer and the average ACBL member is quite close to the expected lifespan for men). But the vast majority of these ACBL members are not traveling to nationals at all, much less competing in the Wagar or Spingold.

I don't think overall ACBL membership statistics have much bearing on the types of national events or attendance in national events.

[FrancesHinden]

Well, I can only speak for women's events in my country, not the ACBL, but certainly I don't play in women's events for two main reasons

1. I play a lot of bridge with various partners, nearly all of them male, and I have two regular male partners. I have a limited amount of time, and in particular a limited amount of holiday time. If I started playing women's bridge, I'd have to give up some of the bridge I currently play, which I don't particularly want to do, because I enjoy it (apart from when partner misbids, of course). If I got to the point of representing my country, I'd have to give up on some other holiday as well.

2. The standard is dreadful. Certainly there are some very good female bridge players around, but the average standard is much much lower than in the open game. A number of people I know who play women's bridge have told me that it's bad for their game. There often seems to be some sort of conspiracy of silence, with women who have played for their country's women's team being seen as just as good as the men who play for the open team. You only have to watch some of the early rounds of the Bermuda Bowl and the Venice Cup to know that's rubbish.

I have a slightly different attitude to mixed events. Certainly reason (1) above doesn't apply, because I can play with my normal partner. I do see them as less serious, more fun/social than open events but none the worse for that. We played only one week in San Remo this year (lack of holiday time), and chose to play the mixed because we thought we'd have a better chance of doing well.

[mycroft]

As far as seeding goes for the USWBF:

Yes, there are awards for Open events. They are, in fact, bigger than for the Women's events. However:

1) Even in a 14-team league, of which probably 10-12 teams plan on playing the USWBF(*), it's likely easier to win the Wagar than come third in the Spingold (for the same 80 PPs). It's likely easier to come second in the Wagar than to be 5/8 in the Spingold (60 PPs). Win the minimum (two) matches, you get 40PPs. Win 2 matches in the Spingold, you get 8, and the third match brings you to 32.

2) Play with your regular (male) partner and you lose a quarter of your PPs. Play with a male pair, or two mixed partnerships, and you lose half of them. Yes, even on a 6-person team.

(*) Actually the number is a fair bit less this time, looking at the sheets. Teams 6, 7, 10, 13, and 14 can't play for the USBF, and it's likely that 8 and 11 don't really care about the PP. But I do notice a lot of the ineligible players on that list are playing in Brazil, and three pairs that aren't probably arranged the games before they failed to qualify out of Europe.

[benlessard]

I think it it might be a good to have a prestigious event with teams of 8 where at least 1 woman 1 senior and 1 junior is needed.


It would encourage national organization and "sponsors" to promote and coach all the spectrum of players. Without hurting the quality of the bridge played.