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King or Jack

#1 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 04:39

Scoring: IMP


Pass - (1♣) - 1♠ - (X)
Pass - (2♥) - 2♠ - (X)
Pass - (Pass) - Pass

First double was high-low. (Either a normal negative double, or a forcing hand.)
Second double was penalty.

The lead is the ♥3, fourth best, to the King.
East takes the ♣A and returns the ♣10.

Do you use the King or the Jack?
Is it obvious?
What are your considerations?

I would appreciate many replies, even if they are redundant.

Thanks in advance.
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Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

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#2 User is offline   wclass___ 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 04:56

I would definetly play the jack.

East couldn't have more than one small card in ♠, but he can't have 5♦4♥3♣1♠

One might ask why west didn't lead his singleton ♣. I think that he just unsuccessfuly tried to force trumps.

However i would also check what opponents open with 4♣4♦41
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#3 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 07:22

OleBerg, on Jul 30 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

I would appreciate many replies, even if they are redundant.

card play problems hardly get many responses.

I think the Jack is obvious, playing the King would only be good if East made a mistake already, kind of restricted choice, East could lead low from A10x but not from AQ10.

Also I expect the jack to get ruffed. AQ10x or AQ10 is always more than A10x. The king might be an option if East didn't open 1♣, to avoid a ruff from him, but as it is the jack is the only correct card.
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#4 User is offline   cRi cRi 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 07:37

Yes, I play the jack as well. Maybe the good card is low but I have to try the jack :) .
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#5 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 08:51

Did you ask the opponents if 1♣ was 2+ and 1♦ would guarantee 4?
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#6 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 09:01

wclass___, on Jul 30 2009, 05:56 AM, said:

I would definetly play the jack.

East couldn't have more than one small card in ♠, but he can't have 5♦4♥3♣1♠

One might ask why west didn't lead his singleton ♣. I think that he just unsuccessfuly tried to force trumps.

However i would also check what opponents open with 4♣4♦41

We need to know more about the EW bidding agreements. It might be difficult for E to hold 4♦ as he did not open 1♦ which would give him x 4 3 y and W x 4 5 y. Now if EW open 1♣ then even 3433 is possible leaving W with xx Qxxx AQxxx Qx
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
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#7 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 09:08

Opps. system:

5-card major.
15-17 NT.
4-4 in the minors is opened 1♣.
3-3 in the minors is opened 1♣.
What is done with 4-4-3-2 is not known. (If this matters, I would highly appreciate two answers.)
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#8 User is offline   se12sam 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 09:23

OleBerg, on Jul 30 2009, 04:08 PM, said:

What is done with 4-4-3-2 is not known. (If this matters, I would highly appreciate two answers.)

I'd say it would be illogical to consider 4-4-3-2 with East. This would imply West has approx ♠x ♥Qxxx ♦AQxxx ♣Qxx and has doubled for penalty at IMPs ?
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#9 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 09:39

se12sam, on Jul 30 2009, 05:23 PM, said:

OleBerg, on Jul 30 2009, 04:08 PM, said:

What is done with 4-4-3-2 is not known. (If this matters, I would highly appreciate two answers.)

I'd say it would be illogical to consider 4-4-3-2 with East. This would imply West has approx ♠x ♥Qxxx ♦AQxxx ♣Qxx and has doubled for penalty at IMPs ?

Sure. ;) (Just mentioned system without thinking.)
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#10 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-July-30, 12:19

It looks like East is 1=4=4=4 for the penalty double to be at all reasonable.

Therefore the jack is obvious.

I can't imagine a sensible penalty double without at least four trumps. And I presume West must have followed to the first club otherwise you would have made mention of this fact.
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#11 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2009-July-31, 11:13

Unless one of the opponents has done something weird, West is almost exactly Q9xx Qxxx AQxx x. So the Jack should hold it to -1.
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#12 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-July-31, 23:27

If you are curious:

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=33265
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#13 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2009-August-01, 07:07

OleBerg, on Aug 1 2009, 12:27 AM, said:

If you are curious:

http://forums.bridge...showtopic=33265

Why players fail to use the words "No agreements" as an acceptable response to questions about the meaning of the second double is beyond me. I certainly would have expected it to be a DSIP double. With that thought in mind the failure to opening lead a ♣, East's bad ♣ play, and failure to switch to a trump to prevent a ♥ ruff in dummy suggest more evenly divided ♣
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

George Bernard Shaw
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#14 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2009-August-01, 08:44

What is a DSIP double?
Michael Askgaard
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#15 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-August-01, 09:08

MFA, on Aug 1 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

What is a DSIP double?

"Double-Secondtime-Isn't-Penalty".

I don't even believe it myself.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#16 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2009-August-03, 07:33

Do Something Intelligent Partner
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#17 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2009-August-03, 07:58

Otherwise known as a blame-shifting double.
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