[jillybean]

Vuln. MP, opps silent

KT62, 98, KQ6543, Q

Partner opens in first position;

1♣:1♦
2N:

[jdonn]

3♠, we should keep bidding our hand in case we belong in spades or diamonds.

[ArtK78]

I would rather emphasize my main suit by bidding 3♦. Pard could have 4 spades and should bid them over 3♦ (either a cue in support of diamonds or natural). I will raise 3♠ to 4, otherwise I will respect a signoff in 3NT.

[mike777]

jillybean2, on Jul 10 2009, 12:05 PM, said:

Vuln. MP,  opps silent

KT62, 98, KQ6543, Q

Partner opens in first position;

1♣:1♦
2N:

3s easy so far


more difficult if you play full Walsh style where if you start:
1c=1s
2nt=?(where I guess I punt with 3nt)(good example where the D suit can get lost in Walsh style)

[Phil]

3♠.

I don't like 3♦ since we can never get to a 4-4 spade fit since 3♠ over my own 3♦ is a cuebid and not a suit.

I'm good enough for 4♦ over 3N, so why not show my shape?

[Jlall]

3S, disagree that we are good enough for 4D over 2N. In fact haven't we already shown a hand at least this good by bidding diamonds then spades? Or is walsh not standard enough to be assumed. Even not playing walsh I would pass 3N.

[mtvesuvius]

3♠, for me this should show 6-4 since with 5-4 I probably would start with 1♠. I am passing over 3NT though, I don't think that I have anymore to show then.

[Phil]

Jlall, on Jul 10 2009, 04:18 PM, said:

3S, disagree that we are good enough for 4D over 2N. In fact haven't we already shown a hand at least this good by bidding diamonds then spades? Or is walsh not standard enough to be assumed. Even not playing walsh I would pass 3N.

Would you really bid 1♦ with this playing Walsh? I wouldn't.

My read is we aren't playing Walsh.

[jillybean]

We arent playing Walsh,

3♦ here is not 100% forcing, is it?

If you bid 3♠ partner responds 3N, where the majority leave it.

[mike777]

I play basically anything over 2nt is forcing. That means with pure junk you pass 2nt even with long weak minor.

[jdonn]

I think standard is 3♦ is forcing, but I'm not even sure and I definitely wouldn't risk it without an agreement.

[neilkaz]

mtvesuvius, on Jul 10 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

3♠, for me this should show 6-4 since with 5-4 I probably would start with 1♠. I am passing over 3NT though, I don't think that I have anymore to show then.

We think alike here.

[the hog]

Looks like an easy 3S rebid for me.

[jillybean]

3♠ seems like a torture partner bid, he has already described his hand as balanced 18. What sort of hand would you expect partner to be able to bid anything other than 3nt?

I see 3♦ logically is forcing but not too many play that method.

[mike777]

jillybean2, on Jul 10 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

3♠ seems  like a torture partner bid, he has already described his hand as balanced 18. What sort of hand would you expect partner to be able to bid anything other than 3nt?

I see 3♦ logically is forcing but not too many play that method.

jilly:
1) pard has not denied 4s yes?
2) I would assume any bid over 2nt as 100% game force.
3) granted I respond 1s with that hand so.......diamonds lost.
4)MP...so ignore d even more for spades or nt....

[jillybean]

mike777, on Jul 10 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 10 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

3♠ seems  like a torture partner bid, he has already described his hand as balanced 18. What sort of hand would you expect partner to be able to bid anything other than 3nt?

I see 3♦ logically is forcing but not too many play that method.

jilly:
1) pard has not denied 4s yes?
2) I would assume any bid over 2nt as 100% game force.
3) granted I respond 1s with that hand so.......diamonds lost.
4)MP...so ignore d even more for spades or nt....

1. Why wouldnt partner bid a 4M, 2nt next turn?
2. I never assume anything in this game

[mike777]

jillybean2, on Jul 11 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

mike777, on Jul 10 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 10 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

3♠ seems  like a torture partner bid, he has already described his hand as balanced 18. What sort of hand would you expect partner to be able to bid anything other than 3nt?

I see 3♦ logically is forcing but not too many play that method.

jilly:
1) pard has not denied 4s yes?
2) I would assume any bid over 2nt as 100% game force.
3) granted I respond 1s with that hand so.......diamonds lost.
4)MP...so ignore d even more for spades or nt....

1. Why wouldnt partner bid a 4M, 2nt next turn?
2. I never assume anything in this game

I C this is hot button issue......does 2nt rebid deny 4 card major?


1c=1d
????

[jdonn]

jillybean2, on Jul 10 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

3♠ seems like a torture partner bid, he has already described his hand as balanced 18. What sort of hand would you expect partner to be able to bid anything other than 3nt?

Not only might partner have four spades, which in itself is a very good reason to bid them, but also consider that he might have very weak hearts. For example AQx xxx Axx AKJx is a very easy 5♦ that could go down in 3NT. AQx Ax Jxx AKxxx is a very easy 6♦ that will almost definitely go down in 3NT.

Sorry Jilly but I have to disagree that 3♠ is a torture bid. We have the two suits we bid with more in the first suit, what else would partner expect? 3♠ is a partnership bid, we describe our hand accurately so partner can make a good decision.

[jillybean]

mike777, on Jul 10 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 11 2009, 12:05 AM, said:

mike777, on Jul 10 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Jul 10 2009, 11:29 PM, said:

3♠ seems  like a torture partner bid, he has already described his hand as balanced 18. What sort of hand would you expect partner to be able to bid anything other than 3nt?

I see 3♦ logically is forcing but not too many play that method.

jilly:
1) pard has not denied 4s yes?
2) I would assume any bid over 2nt as 100% game force.
3) granted I respond 1s with that hand so.......diamonds lost.
4)MP...so ignore d even more for spades or nt....

1. Why wouldnt partner bid a 4M, 2nt next turn?
2. I never assume anything in this game

I C this is hot button issue......does 2nt rebid deny 4 card major?


1c=1d
????

Thats what I'd like to know, I need more agreements/. If it does deny 4M then 3♦ if forcing, is perhaps the best option.

[mike777]

you ask me no no no

2nt never denies 4 card major........but




I agree i see many disagree.

again on this action I never lose 4s but I lose 6 card d suit