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Passed hand Overcall

Poll: How do you rate 2[SP] here? (42 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you rate 2[SP] here?

  1. Mandatory (1 votes [2.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.38%

  2. I would (2 votes [4.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  3. Meh, whatever (4 votes [9.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.52%

  4. I wouldn't (25 votes [59.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.52%

  5. Terrible (10 votes [23.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.81%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 08:14

Scoring: XIMP

P 1♦ P 2♦
?


1♦ was Precision (2+)
2♦ was F1.

R/W, what do you do here?
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#2 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 08:25

The first thing I do is curse at my partner (inwardly of course) for not playing my two-way-pass system, where this is a clear 1♠ opener (9-15, 5+ spades).

Now I find 2♠ mandatory, even though it is obviously dangerous.
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 08:26

opps have bid a 2/1 and I'm red vs white with AJTxx? no thanks
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#4 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 08:32

What do we really hope to gain at these colours - even at MP, never mind IMPs?

I actually clicked I would call having got the colours round the wrong way - but - yuck, red vs white - no way.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#5 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 09:16

NickRW, on May 29 2009, 04:32 PM, said:

What do we really hope to gain at these colours

What we hope to gain is some Imp's (or not to lose some). Either by telling partner, that we would like a spade lead, or by causing the opponents to misjudge (this will normally only happen when partner raises).

Quote

even at MP, never mind IMPs?


Actually the bid is more dangerous at MP's. All the times they take 200 vs their partscore or 500 vs their game, we have a very small loss at Imp's, but a disaster at MP's.

Just a little math:

If they take 500 vs their partscore, it will look disastrous, but it will normally only be an 8 Imp loss. If they misjudge their partscore, and go minus, we will gain 4 Imps. if 2♠ keeps them out of an otherwise making 3NT we gain 8, and if it causes us to defeat 3NT, we will gain 10.

Of course 2♠ might sometimes help them, I'm just putting the numbers in perspective.

Furthermore, it will be difficult for them to catch us, unless LHO has four spades. If CHO gets carried away, he needs to be educated.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 09:25

Overcalling is asking for trouble r/w. So many bad things can happen.

- We get nailed. This happens a lot especially at MPs where the opponents can see the colors too. There's a strong chance that pard has five hearts here making spades especially unattractive.
- We don't get nailed. This sometimes happens against weak opposition, but -200/-300 won't matchpoint well.
- Pard was about to lead a spade from Kxxx or Kxx /xxx (with his entryless hand) against 3N anyway and you've jockeyed them into 5♦. It's conceivable partner might even find a club lead against 3N.
- Some psychos will overcall 2♠ at other tables and you rate to be ahead of them, so IMO you are in a plus position.

I might overcall w/r. but then again I would open this 2♠.
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#7 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 10:03

Phil, on May 29 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

Overcalling is asking for trouble r/w. So many bad things can happen.

A few good things might happen too.

Quote

- We get nailed. This happens a lot especially at MPs where the opponents can see the colors too. There's a strong chance that pard has five hearts here making spades especially unattractive.
- We don't get nailed. This sometimes happens against weak opposition, but -200/-300 won't matchpoint well.

This is XIMPS according to OP.

Quote

- Pard was about to lead a spade from Kxxx  or Kxx /xxx (with his entryless hand) against 3N anyway and you've jockeyed them into 5♦. It's conceivable partner might even find a club lead against 3N.

An obvious danger, but not that frequent.

Quote

- Some psychos will overcall 2♠ at other tables and you rate to be ahead of them, so IMO you are in a plus position.

A complete non-argument. You are saying that 2♠ is a bad bid, because it is a bad bid, meanwhile stating the obvious, that it is better not to make a bad bid.

Quote

I might overcall w/r. but then again I would open this 2♠.

Come to think of it, so would I.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
0

#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 10:09

I bid 2♠. Let's make good things happen. There is a good chance they haven't even discussed what to do in competition.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#9 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 10:18

I'm getting old, I wouldn't do it.
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#10 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 10:33

JLOL, on May 29 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

I'm getting old, I wouldn't do it.

LOL

Me neither... :P
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#11 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 10:34

I'm somewhere between meh and I would which means I would but I don't feel strongly about it at all.
Kevin Fay
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#12 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 11:15

I would not, too dangerous at these colors.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 12:57

I'd pass most of the time.
2♠ have some merit though.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#14 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 13:02

I seem to be holding a minority "meh" position alone.
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#15 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-May-29, 21:56

I wouldn't, at unfav.
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#16 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2009-May-30, 02:58

Not when vul - I'd bid when NV though - slightly less likely to get nailed if they have a fit.
Ming

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#17 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-May-31, 05:07

Scoring: XIMP

P 1♦ P 2♦
?


This is from the Cavendish a few weeks ago. (Session 4, B22 - the hand from the original post is now East instead of South)

At one of the BBO tables, Grue-Cheek were NS, I don't remember who was EW. There was no overcall, and South ended up in 3NT on a heart lead making 10 tricks. At the other BBO table Lall-Bathurst were NS (Justin was North) against the winners Levin-Weinstein. This time there was an overcall, which kept NS out of 3NT.

I was interested that a very strong pair chose to overcall, because (like many who replied) it was not an obvious bid for me.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#18 User is offline   JLOL 

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Posted 2009-May-31, 12:18

YeaH F Stevie :P I doubt Bobby woulda overcalled.
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