[kgr]

I play mostly Info DBL's with my partner.
What should DBL be here and how do you play DBL here:
1♠-(2♦)-2♠-(Pass)
Pass-(3♣)-DBL?
and
1♠-(2♦)-2♠-(Pass)
Pass-(3♣)-Pass-(Pass)
DBL?
 
Maybe it would be interesting to have a pinned topic with all DBL cases to verify with a partner.

[peachy]

With my partners, first case is easy and clear: balanced maximum with only 3-card support, suggests defending (lead trump) unless opener's hand is unsuitable for defense. It is possible to find 4S in this sequence sometimes! Second is takeout oriented, short clubs but not void, and adequate defense if partner leaves in. In either case, if the X is left in, we should be prepared to also double 3D if they correct; or else successfully declare 3S. Vulnerability matters in all decisions.

[kgr]

It feels like both DBL's should be the same. If one is (not) penalty then the other should also be (not) penalty?

[gnasher]

I think they should both be for penalties, or at least penalty-oriented.

[kgr]

gnasher, on May 31 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

I think they should both be for penalties, or at least penalty-oriented.

I have that same feeling at IMP's, but at MP's I would prefer an info DBL.
As I said we play mostly info DBL's: Thereofr it is maybe best to keep this one also info?
(We had the 2nd bidding at IMP's and I had something like xxx=xxx=KJxx=Axx and passed. Partner had a singleton ♣ and 3♣X made +1).

[gwnn]

sorry kgr I don't understand "info dbl". We already have a fit, what other strains are we looking for?

[kgr]

gwnn, on May 31 2009, 12:00 PM, said:

sorry kgr I don't understand "info dbl". We already have a fit, what other strains are we looking for?

Instead of bidding 3♠, DBL in case partner has ♣'s.

[helene_t]

gwnn, on May 31 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

sorry kgr I don't understand "info dbl". We already have a fit, what other strains are we looking for?

"informatiedoublet" is Dutch for t/o dbl.

[NickRW]

helene_t, on May 31 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

gwnn, on May 31 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

sorry kgr I don't understand "info dbl". We already have a fit, what other strains are we looking for?

"informatiedoublet" is Dutch for t/o dbl.

I don't think the problem is understanding the term "info dbl". I think the problem is understanding why such a bid would be appropriate when we've found a fit.

Possibly the OP + partner are worried about being in a 4-3 fit (assuming this is in the context of 4cM) perhaps? If that is the case, I wouldn't - spades are usually five even in a 4cM system.

Nick

[kgr]

NickRW, on May 31 2009, 05:35 PM, said:

helene_t, on May 31 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

gwnn, on May 31 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

sorry kgr I don't understand "info dbl". We already have a fit, what other strains are we looking for?

"informatiedoublet" is Dutch for t/o dbl.

I don't think the problem is understanding the term "info dbl". I think the problem is understanding why such a bid would be appropriate when we've found a fit.

Possibly the OP + partner are worried about being in a 4-3 fit (assuming this is in the context of 4cM) perhaps? If that is the case, I wouldn't - spades are usually five even in a 4cM system.

Nick

Not worried about 4-3 fit, we play 5cM.
Worried about going to 3♠ with a singleton ♣ when partner has ♣ and 3♣X or 3♦X would be better contracts for us then 3♠

[NickRW]

kgr, on May 31 2009, 04:09 PM, said:

Not worried about 4-3 fit, we play 5cM.
Worried about going to 3♠ with a singleton ♣ when partner has ♣ and 3♣X or 3♦X would be better contracts for us then 3♠

Well, in that case, don't play the dbl here as take out - it doesn't really make sense to me anyway having found a fit.

To go back to your opening post, you need to agree with your partner some sort of list of rules about doubles. For example:

1. A dbl is t/o when responding after an overcall up to ___ (insert what level you play double as some form of take out to)

2. A dbl is t/o when we are overcalling up to ___

3. A dbl is always penalty if it is the 3rd dbl by our side (if you think this is a sensible rule)

4. A dbl is always penalty if we have already found our fit

5. (If you play support doubles in any situation), a dbl is always support when .... whatever

6. Double of an artificial bid is.... whatever - the beginner/simple rule is that it shows the suit doubled/lead directing - but this rule is better than nothing until you agree better defences to artificial openings. And, in any case, is a good default to fall back on if you have no specific agreement.

7. Unless otherwise agreed, a dbl is always t/o (or penalty) - agree which one is the default - makes it easier to just to define the exceptions.

And so on. Perhaps someone has a good list of suggestions for rules here...

Nick

[aguahombre]

peachy, on May 31 2009, 12:57 AM, said:

With my partners, first case is easy and clear: balanced maximum with only 3-card support, suggests defending (lead trump) unless opener's hand is unsuitable for defense.  It is possible to find 4S in this sequence sometimes! Second is takeout oriented, short clubs but not void, and adequate defense if partner leaves in.

I really like the description of the first double. However, the second double, by opener --as described -- means "I am doubling in case you forgot to."

Would prefer that the second double, the one by opener in pass-out seat, be a much stronger suggestion of penalty against their minor suit(s).
Remember, opener was originally content with playing a spade partial. Most hands would now be content to defend peacefully.

[dake50]

If your partnership is forming agreements on later-in-auction doubles try 'Coaches Corner' at shawbiz. DSIP Course.

[hanp]

I think balanced maximum is a good agreement. I don't have this agreement but I think it is good.