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What's Standard? meaning for 1H-P-1N-P-4C

Poll: What is the *standard* meaning? (89 member(s) have cast votes)

What is the *standard* meaning?

  1. Natural, forcing (2 votes [2.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.25%

  2. Natural, not forcing (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Shortness; self-sufficient hearts (61 votes [68.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.54%

  4. Gerber (17 votes [19.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.10%

  5. No standard meaning / does not exist (9 votes [10.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.11%

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#1 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2009-March-01, 21:40

Suppose you are playing 2/1 (or standard american, it shouldn't really matter) with a strong partner. What is the *standard* meaning of 1♥-1NT-4♣? Do you think there is a substantial minority treatment?
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#2 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2009-March-01, 21:46

Already a minority of 1 voting for Gerber, and it wasn't me.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-March-01, 21:58

Otto-splinter
Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
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#4 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2009-March-01, 22:17

Automaton
Kevin Fay
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#5 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-March-01, 23:28

1430 Gerber for Notrump.

4♦ is 0 or 3 stoppers
4♥ is 1 or 4 stoppers
4♠ is 2 stoppers with 12 cards
4NT is 2 stoppers with 13 cards
5♣ is 2 stoppers with 14 cards

OK, and for anyone who read just that and thought I was serious, well... B)

This should be an Auto-Splinter here.
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#6 User is offline   MarkDean 

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Posted 2009-March-01, 23:31

Undiscussed, I assume splinter. When I discuss it with partners, I like to play it showing a void.
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#7 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 00:56

It has never happened at my table nor in any article I have read... if any partner of mine perpetrated it, I would assume 6-6 or better: AQxxxx AKxxxx type suits
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#8 User is offline   cherdanno 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 02:28

Self-splinter, its not even that rare.
"Are you saying that LTC merits a more respectful dismissal?"
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#9 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 04:08

Autosplinter
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 04:20

picutres 5♥ and 6 or 7♣.....

Lol, no, its auto splinter :), habving seen it in years though.
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 04:57

I would take it as a hand that should have opened something else (i.e. the system's forcing opening :P)
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#12 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 10:07

Argh! You got me. I play this as autosplinter but I thought, undiscussed, this was Gerber (jump over last notrump). I see now why this is illogical. How can a hand that can't open 2C or jump shift ask a 1N responder for aces?

In The Bidding Dictionary (1996), Alan Truscott defines 4C as a splinter with self-sufficient hearts.

Ditto Modern American Bidding (2003) by Eric Kokish.
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#13 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-March-02, 13:29

Selfsplinter, void.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#14 User is offline   bill1157 

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Posted 2009-March-03, 18:20

it is gerber if you are agreed "gerber over 1st and last nt"; it is a splinter if you have agreed to play it that way. But if you have to ask what it is, it has to be natural showing 5-5 and choice of 4 !h and 5!c.

Bill
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#15 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2009-March-04, 02:24

bill1157, on Mar 3 2009, 07:20 PM, said:

it is gerber if you are agreed "gerber over 1st and last nt"; it is a splinter if you have agreed to play it that way. But if you have to ask what it is, it has to be natural showing 5-5 and choice of 4 !h and 5!c.

Bill

Even when you have agreed "4c over 1st and last NT" as Gerber, by my logic this auction must an exception. Opener would have opened something other than 1H if he now is prepared [and not crazy] to ask for aces opposite partner who responded 1NT (6-9, maybe good 5HCP) so it must be something other than ace ask.
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#16 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2009-March-04, 08:07

I've always played it as self splinter, and have not heard of any others.
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#17 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-March-04, 10:14

I'm scared... There were 11 votes for Gerber, and 4 votes for "Does not exist". I think the world is coming to an end <_<
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
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#18 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2009-March-04, 10:35

Stupid fracking internet. I had a nice answer written out, and it fell into a black hole. Screw it.

SAYC: "undefined/does not exist".
Other Modern American (including 2/1): Splinter.

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#19 User is offline   dcvetkov 

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Posted 2009-March-04, 11:49

I dont know if there is anything standard here

It makes sense to agree

1) gerber

2) Self splinter, but it makes sense to show specifically 5-4-3-1. or 5-4-4-0 distribution. With others, there are other bids available. Very strong hand
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#20 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2009-March-04, 12:00

dcvetkov, on Mar 4 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

2) Self splinter, but it makes sense to show specifically 5-4-3-1. or 5-4-4-0 distribution. With others, there are other bids available. Very strong hand

You can't do that, you will miss 3NT when partner has his strength in your short suit. It's played as long in the major you opened, usually a 7 card suit.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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