[gnasher]

We don't know which game we belong in. We have a bid available that says "I don't know which game we belong in". It does seem rather obvious.

[neilkaz]

gnasher, on Feb 17 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

We don't know which game we belong in. We have a bid available that says "I don't know which game we belong in". It does seem rather obvious.

I am also a 3♠ bidder and wonder if some of the other answers possibly are from those who've missread the auction.

[matmat]

Echognome, on Feb 17 2009, 05:11 PM, said:

I think Mike and I need to brush up on our post reading. Given it's 2pm in the afternoon here, I can't even blame lack of coffee.

post lunch food coma, gnome.

[the hog]

4H for me. The Q of H is a nice card.
Can't bid a minor - fit jump.
Also I think 3S would be interpreted as a max pass with H support.

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Feb 17 2009, 08:07 PM, said:

4H for me. The Q of H is a nice card.
Can't bid a minor - fit jump.
Also I think 3S would be interpreted as a max pass with H support.

I get great joy out of the karma of someone being forced to raise on a singleton because a new suit would show a fit.

[mtvesuvius]

jdonn, on Feb 17 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Feb 17 2009, 08:07 PM, said:

4H for me. The Q of H is a nice card.
Can't bid a minor - fit jump.
Also I think 3S would be interpreted as a max pass with H support.

I get great joy out of the karma of someone being forced to raise on a singleton because a new suit would show a fit.

Quite Amusing... BTW, how can you make a fit jump when it's not a jump? Fit jumps seem to complicate things in most auctions and create awkward situations like this. Is there really that much merit in using them?

Sorry if this is an extremely ignorant post...

[TimG]

mtvesuvius, on Feb 17 2009, 08:56 PM, said:

Sorry if this is an extremely ignorant post...

Careful, you could get your A/E license revoked.

[Echognome]

jdonn, on Feb 17 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

I get great joy out of the karma of someone being forced to raise on a singleton because a new suit would show a fit.

Josh, You should invent the newfangled non-fit, non-jump bid.

[jdonn]

He meant fit non-jump. That has been the most discussed bridge-related topic (perhaps other than regulations) in the forums over the years. There are clearly people who think when a passed hand bids a new suit at various levels opposite an overcall that it promises a fit with the overcaller. And there are people who do not think that. And neither side seems to want to budge.

[mtvesuvius]

jdonn, on Feb 17 2009, 09:20 PM, said:

And neither side seems to want to budge.

So I guess I'm stuck between a rock and... well... another rock . Thanks for the info though... I have never really looked too much into fit bids etc... So it's appreciated.

[maggieb]

jdonn, on Feb 17 2009, 09:20 PM, said:

There are clearly people who think when a passed hand bids a new suit at various levels opposite an overcall that it promises a fit with the overcaller. And there are people who do not think that.

And then there are a few who can see the merits of agreeing that a new suit at a high level by a passed hand shows support without denying that it can hurt at times as well. I actually thought you were one of those Josh.

[Fluffy]

East has passed, what is the point of a jit non jump here? you show support with 3♠/4♥.

If East did bid 3♠ then I would take 4m as FNJ, reason being that now there is a take out double avaible for the non fitting hands.

3♠ as take out looks very interesting, but it is compeltelly against my general principles. Maybe its best, but won't ahve the sequence talked.

[jdonn]

maggieb, on Feb 17 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

jdonn, on Feb 17 2009, 09:20 PM, said:

There are clearly people who think when a passed hand bids a new suit at various levels opposite an overcall that it promises a fit with the overcaller. And there are people who do not think that.

And then there are a few who can see the merits of agreeing that a new suit at a high level by a passed hand shows support without denying that it can hurt at times as well. I actually thought you were one of those Josh.

What makes you think I'm not?

[effervesce]

3♠ first choice, 4♥ second.

3♠ allows 3NT to stay in the picture, and shows your values. 4♥ will often be the best spot as partner will usually have a good suit to overcall 3♥ opposite a passed hand.

[Apollo81]

TimG, on Feb 17 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Feb 17 2009, 05:52 PM, said:

I'd bid 4♣, hoepfully partner can tell I don't have a bunch of clubs that I didn't preempt.

So, it's a fit non-jump?

lol

[benlessard]

With low requirement preempts a passed hand cannot have a club suit good enough to bid at the 4 level. So 4C is either showing both minors or FNJ. I think its better to be able to show half stoppers.

So

3S = good 4H raise or half a stopper
4C= both m
4D = FNJ

seems better then

3S & 4m always show a fit.

[gnasher]

The_Hog, on Feb 18 2009, 02:07 AM, said:

Also I think 3S would be interpreted as a max pass with H support.

What would 4♥ show?

[Codo]

I think that using 3 ♠ as a heart raise is a dumb idea.

I would use 4 ♥ as a heart raise and 3 ♠ as a COG and think that this is obviously better then having 4 ways of raising hearts but no way to ask for a stopper.

[hanp]

Codo, on Feb 18 2009, 04:16 AM, said:

I think that using 3 ♠ as a heart raise is a dumb idea.

I would use 4 ♥ as a heart raise and 3 ♠ as a COG and think that this is obviously better then having 4 ways of raising hearts but no way to ask for a stopper.

bingo

[FrancesHinden]

benlessard, on Feb 18 2009, 07:24 AM, said:

With low requirement preempts a passed hand cannot have a club suit good enough to bid at the 4 level. So 4C is either showing both minors or FNJ. I think its better to be able to show half stoppers.

So

3S = good 4H raise or half a stopper
4C= both m
4D = FNJ

seems better then

3S & 4m always show a fit.

I don't get this. Why can't we just have clubs?
Personally, I wouldn't open

xxxx
Qx
x
AQ10xxx

(certainly I wouldn't vulnerable)

and yet all I want to do after (2S) 3H (P) is bid my longest suit at the lowest level..

The only reason that 4C "shows" heart support by a passed hand is that
(i) I think it ought to be forcing
(ii) It goes past 3NT

But here I bid 4C because of all the good things that might happen.
- we might have a club fit
- we might have a diamond fit
- we might have a 7-1 heart fit

While I agree 3S shouldn't promise heart support (you haven't really got room for it), I would expect partner to bid 3NT over 3S with something as boring as
AQx
AKxxx
x
QJxx

where 3NT is not the right spot