[InTime]

Scoring: MP

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North....East....South.....West
Pass.....1♣........Pass.....2♣(Inverted minor)
Pass.......?

What is the best way for the bidding to proceed towards 6♣?
System: 2/1
Note:- We also use 4♣ as KeyCard if you want to use it.

[rogerclee]

3♦ splinter. I think nothing will get you to 7♣, though.

[Fluffy]

East bids 2/3/4♦ to show shortness, and nothing will stop West to bid 6♣ then.


Reaching 7 is kinda hard, but I think possible if West raises the splinter

------1♣
2♣-3♦
4♦-4NT
5♠-

East has a great shot at 7♣ now, Partner is marked with at least 1 major King, and either ♠KQ or ♥K produce 13 tricks, the others produce a 50% grand.

[rogerclee]

Fluffy, on Feb 9 2009, 08:03 AM, said:

East bids 2/3/4♦ to show shortness, and nothing will stop West to bid 6♣ then.


Reaching 7 is kinda hard, but I think possible if West raises the splinter

------1♣
2♣-3♦
4♦-4NT
5♠-

East has a great shot at 7♣ now, Partner is marked with at least 1 major King, and either ♠KQ or ♥K produce 13 tricks, the others produce a 50% grand.

Why does east know that west has 5 clubs and 3+♦?

[Fluffy]

4♦ shows 3 or more diamonds to me.

the 5th club is shown on the 2 club bid IMO, with 2344 I bid 1 diamond.

[keylime]

I'm patterning out here:

1C - 2C
2H - 2NT
3S - 4D
4H - 4NT
5C - 5H
5S - 5NT* (choice of slams)
6C

7C, requires a lot of method I think, and the perfect hand. Be happy to get to six.

[peachy]

This hand is like a textbook example of splinter by opener. Responder then knows that all his values are working and at least 6C will be reached.

[H_KARLUK]

Scoring: MP

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With regular partner we like play 2♦ Multi : A-- weak twos B-- 2NT with any 5 cm C-- 16+ any 4441
In friendly local club matches people get used splinter with pick-up partners.

Already 32 HCP and an established trump fit on partnership cards, i don't think at least a hard slam to reach there even some people bid bare natural.

Sorry, no offense pls "best way" words sounds a "loaded question" tho i admit perhaps unintentionally done. Meanwhile am i wrong given layout GS♣ available? 2 rnds trumps, pitch West's ♠ loser to master ♥, ruff 2 ♦ to table.

[kenrexford]

What next after a 1♣-P-2♣ start is a loaded question, because there are SOOOO many methods in use here. I have no idea what is "standard" on this specific date, if anything.

I find it strange to have this start, as Opener has a normal 15-17 1NT opening, which changes everything. So, assuming 2/1 GF with a weak 1NT opening is possible, but I have no idea.

Catching up to show 15-17 seems difficult. If you routinely open 1♣ with this sort of hand, which seems atypical, then presumably you need some sort of unwind that is not standard.

So, I have no idea how to answer this. I also have no idea how anyone else is answering this.

[gnasher]

kenrexford, on Feb 9 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

I find it strange to have this start, as Opener has a normal 15-17 1NT opening, which changes everything.  So, assuming 2/1 GF with a weak 1NT opening is possible, but I have no idea.

In some partnerships I have to treat this as a 15-17 1NT opening, but I wouldn't regard it as either normal or desirable. I can't see it helping much on this layout, either.

Quote

Catching up to show 15-17 seems difficult.  If you routinely open 1♣ with this sort of hand, which seems atypical, then presumably you need some sort of unwind that is not standard.

You seem to think that partner is going to play me for less than 15HCP. If I describe an unbalanced hand, won't he play me for a hand in the range 11-20 or so?

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2009-February-09, 17:02

[InTime]

Fluffy, on Feb 9 2009, 10:03 AM, said:

East bids 2/3/4♦ to show shortness, and nothing will stop West to bid 6♣ then.


Reaching 7 is kinda hard, but I think possible if West raises the splinter

------1♣
2♣-3♦
4♦-4NT
5♠-

East has a great shot at 7♣ now, Partner is marked with at least 1 major King, and either ♠KQ or ♥K produce 13 tricks, the others produce a 50% grand.

Sorry - this was actually a teams game (IMPS) and not MP.
I appreciate the input.
The reason why I put it on the forum is to try and get the best possible way to proceed forward with the bidding. Any pair with bad bidding can reach 6♣ on this layout and then clapping themselves on the shoulder afterwards.
In my part of the world, opening 1NT with the East hand with a singleton is alertable.
Opening 1♣, getting a reply of 1♦ and then 1♥ indicating an unbalanced hand and is highly encouraging. Responder should not pass easily (maybe with 5-6 miserable pts and he cannot even give preference).
What one should take into account is that West promises only 12+ pts with his 2♣ bid. So, change the hand slightly and give West 13 pts (Attached).

Scoring: IMP

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Because East has a singleton diamond, the probability is high that the trumps may brake badly.
Now you are hopping around with diamonds ending in a KeyCard ask of 4NT getting an answer of 5♥ What now? Do you still feel comfortable to bid 6♣ or even 5NT? I don't know

Rationale of why you are taking a certain actions and direction (maybe partnership understanding) with the bidding will be most welcome.
Regards

[H_KARLUK]

Thanks for th clarification InTime. Also thanks for honesty and politeness. Good work.
Regards
Hamdi

[OleBerg]

InTime, on Feb 10 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

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On these EW-hands, 6♣ is still huge, only defeated by a 4-0 split in ♣, with 4 in North.

[Fluffy]

InTime, on Feb 10 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

Because East has a singleton diamond, the probability is high that the trumps may brake badly.

This is very wrong, diamond holding doesn't affect clubs distribution on any way.

[Codo]

My try:
1 ♣ 2 ♣
3 ♦ 3 ♥
4♣ 4 ♦
4♥ 4♠
5♣

Opener showed stiff Diamond, 3 aces and no kings and no queen of club so far.
He is (34)15 or 4414, because with 6 clubs he should have shown the queen.

So give him Axxx,Axxx,x,Axxx and we have 5 clubs, 2 ruffs, 3 Aces and a king for a total of 11 tricks- when we find the queen of clubs.
So to bid 6 seems to be quite a gamble.

So the problem with the splinter is: Nobody has ever limited his hand. Give partner some bits and pieces (like he has here) and 6 is cold. Give him his three aces and nothing more, GAME needs to find the queen of trump and slam chances are remote.

[InTime]

keylime, on Feb 9 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

I'm patterning out here:

1C - 2C
2H - 2NT
3S - 4D
4H - 4NT
5C - 5H
5S - 5NT* (choice of slams)
6C

7C, requires a lot of method I think, and the perfect hand. Be happy to get to six.

I find this sequence interesting. Will appreciate if you can clarify the bids marked with a ?:
1C - 2C
2H - 2NT?
3S - 4D
4H? - 4NT
5C? - 5H?
5S? - 5NT* (choice of slams)?
6C

The other bids not marked I think I know what it means, but can also be wrong. . . . .
Regards

[ArtK78]

It seems to me that East should be able to count 13 tricks on the reasonable assumption that partner has 5 clubs for his 2♣ bid and at least 3 diamonds. This auction should do the trick:

1♣ - 2♣
4♣* - 4NT**
5♦*** - 5♥
7♣

*Minorwood - Key card for clubs
**2 keys with the trump Q
***Continuation requesting side suit kings

[gnasher]

ArtK78, on Feb 10 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

It seems to me that East should be able to count 13 tricks on the reasonable assumption that partner has 5 clubs for his 2♣ bid and at least 3 diamonds. This auction should do the trick:

1♣ - 2♣
4♣* - 4NT**
5♦*** - 5♥
7♣

*Minorwood - Key card for clubs
**2 keys with the trump Q
***Continuation requesting side suit kings

Why shouldn't West be 3325 or 3334? And what will you do if partner has only one key card?

[ArtK78]

gnasher, on Feb 10 2009, 12:50 PM, said:

ArtK78, on Feb 10 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

It seems to me that East should be able to count 13 tricks on the reasonable assumption that partner has 5 clubs for his 2♣ bid and at least 3 diamonds.  This auction should do the trick:

1♣ - 2♣
4♣* - 4NT**
5♦*** - 5♥
7♣

*Minorwood - Key card for clubs
**2 keys with the trump Q
***Continuation requesting side suit kings

Why shouldn't West be 3325 or 3334? And what will you do if partner has only one key card?

Generally speaking, it is unlikely that partner will have only 2 diamonds when I have only one diamond. Even if that is the case, there may be some play.

As for what happens when he has only one key card, I will play in 6♣ which should be a reasonable contract. Quite frankly, over the 2♣ response, if I had to guess what contract I would want to play it would be 6♣. Even if 6♣ can be beaten, it may take a specific opening lead.

[mikeh]

kenrexford, on Feb 9 2009, 04:06 PM, said:

I find it strange to have this start, as Opener has a normal 15-17 1NT opening, which changes everything. 

LOL