[rogerclee]

IMPs, All Red

Scoring: IMP

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1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♦
2♥ - 2NT
3NT - 5NT
6♥ - P

You play a style where opener usually bids 1♠ with a balanced hand and 4 spades. ATB for getting to the wrong slam.

[inquiry]

If you want to blame someone for not playing in 6NT, it has to be north. 6♥ and 6♠ are not bad contracts, a terrible trump split will set both of them. 6NT has the advantage of being cold no matter how the suits split.

[orlam]

inquiry, on Jan 19 2009, 12:43 AM, said:

If you want to blame someone for not playing in 6NT, it has to be north. 6♥ and 6♠ are not bad contracts, a terrible trump split will set both of them. 6NT has the advantage of being cold no matter how the suits split.

Why is that clear to North? How would South bid with Kxxx AQT xx Axxx?

[maggieb]

I don't understand south's bidding, I am having trouble constructing a hand where 6♥ is better than 6NT. North bid his hand fine, he did well to fish for a doubleton diamond, though I am not sure it was wise with such bad trumps.

[mikeh]

I think the blame, such as it is, is evenly distributed. South had no reason to bid 6♥ on the auction: he had a max (I assume, given 3N presumably suggested, as his most probable hand, a weak notrump), and no ruffing value.... but partner preumably had some reason for bringing a moysian into the picture. I think 6♥ was poor... it would make sense with the same hand and 4=3=2=4, so as to be able to ruff a diamond on many layouts.

5N seems silly... on the auction, why look for a moysian? Opposite say Kxxx Axx xx AQ10x, 6N is a good spot and that is precisely the hand type on which S will probably choose 6♥.

Having bid 5N, N probably should have corrected, but that could cause significant confusion.. I know of some pairs that would play 5N then 6N as inviting grand... since overruling the pick-a-slam choice should send some new message.

One would have to be unlucky for these poor choices to cost: I've seen far worse decisions escape with no cost. I should know.. I made many of them.

[JLOL]

With 4324 partner is never bidding 3N over 2N. This is ESPECIALLY true if he has a totally primed out hand with xx diamonds. Gimme a break. I think south was totally fine to bid 6H since his hearts are GREAT in context of his 3N bid on the round before.

I think north will OFTEN have 5 hearts on this auction. I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

[inquiry]

maggieb, on Jan 19 2009, 12:50 AM, said:

I don't understand south's bidding, I am having trouble constructing a hand where 6♥ is better than 6NT. North bid his hand fine, he did well to fish for a doubleton diamond.

why? doesn't north already know he has a doubleton ♣? Rather ruff a potential ♦ in south, you could play to ruff a potential club in north. Anytime 6♠ is better than 6♥ (say south holds ♠KJxx ♥Axx ♦Jx ♣Axxx, do you expect south to be able to figure that out on this auction when ♠ were never supported? As I said, "If you want to blame someone" meaing i don't find a lot of blame and 6♥ is not a bad contract, nor is 6♠.

However, I do think North had much more information than South, and he rushed to 5NT without sharing it. A forcing 4♦ followed by 4♠ might do the trick. An invitational 4NT (if it was invitation) might avoid problems if south was lighter by say the ♥Q.

On the given auction, I can find no fault with South's bidding at all. He might have tried 6♦ over 5NT to suggest his actual distribution or give a choice between 6NT and 6♥ to north. He might have bid 6NT. But 6♥ seems perfectly reasonable as he has strong three card support.

[keylime]

Not a fan of the 5NT bid admittedly...

[MarkDean]

Why didn't north respond 1D? Did that go out of fashion and I missed it?

[EricK]

This style of bidding is quite alien to me. Both players have balanced hands and yet neither seems to have been able to impart that basic information to the other. South has managed to bid 3 suits on a 4333 hand, while North's only suit bid has been in his second best suit, and he's followed it up with FSF (what exactly is he looking for?) and a pick a slam bid (again, why?)

[gnasher]

EricK, on Jan 19 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

This style of bidding is quite alien to me. Both players have balanced hands and yet neither seems to have been able to impart that basic information to the other. South has managed to bid 3 suits on a 4333 hand, while North's only suit bid has been in his second best suit, and he's followed it up with FSF (what exactly is he looking for?) and a pick a slam bid (again, why?)

Me too.

[jdonn]

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

With 4324 partner is never bidding 3N over 2N. This is ESPECIALLY true if he has a totally primed out hand with xx diamonds. Gimme a break. I think south was totally fine to bid 6H since his hearts are GREAT in context of his 3N bid on the round before.

I think north will OFTEN have 5 hearts on this auction. I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

Bingo.

Side notes, I have no idea why north even asked with AKQx of diamonds, and I hate a style where south bids 1♠ with 4333.

[kfay]

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

I thought he did when he bid 2♥. But maybe I just don't understand the system.

[TimG]

kfay, on Jan 19 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

I thought he did when he bid 2♥. But maybe I just don't understand the system.

What is opener supposed to bid over a 4SF 2♦ with something like ♠ATxx ♥Kx ♦xxx ♣AQxx? I suspect that some partnerships agree that 2♥ here is the least bad choice.

[kfay]

TimG, on Jan 19 2009, 11:26 AM, said:

kfay, on Jan 19 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

I thought he did when he bid 2♥. But maybe I just don't understand the system.

What is opener supposed to bid over a 4SF 2♦ with something like ♠ATxx ♥Kx ♦xxx ♣AQxx? I suspect that some partnerships agree that 2♥ here is the least bad choice.

Yeah that occurred to me. So I'm saying I wasn't sure what would happen. Probably 2♥ doesn't promise 3. But if I were to just sit down and start playing that's not what I would have assumed.

[Phil]

kfay, on Jan 19 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

I thought he did when he bid 2♥. But maybe I just don't understand the system.

This is a style issue. You need a rebid with a 4=2=3=4 and no diamond stop. Some rebid 2♥; others (me included) bid 2♠.

That being said, South will absolutely rebid 3♥ with a 4=3=3=3 over 2N.

[mikeh]

Phil, on Jan 19 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

kfay, on Jan 19 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

I thought he did when he bid 2♥. But maybe I just don't understand the system.

This is a style issue. You need a rebid with a 4=2=3=4 and no diamond stop. Some rebid 2♥; others (me included) bid 2♠.

That being said, South will absolutely rebid 3♥ with a 4=3=3=3 over 2N.

did you mean this, or did you mean that he would bid 3♥ with 4=3=2=4?

If you meant it as you posted it, we know that it isn't true... he bid 3n with your 4333.

It may be true that he should rebid 3♥ with 4=3=2=4.. I frankly don't know.. I do think that there is at the least an argument that he wouldn't/shouldn't automatically do that. For example: KJxx xxx AQ KJxx... no way should he do anything other than 3N (but then he wouldn't bid 6♥ either). And less clear hands... KJxx Qxx Kx AJxx... sure looks like 3n to me, over 2N.

The point is that the entire method is silly... so which silliness adjunct do we assume? As another poster mentioned, to play a method where we can get to a suit slam without knowing the extent of our fits or lack thereof, with 34 hcp and 12 tops in 6N is beyond weak.

I mean.. just how tough is this hand if we rebid 1N?????? Answer: trivial.

[Phil]

mikeh, on Jan 19 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

Phil, on Jan 19 2009, 11:59 AM, said:

kfay, on Jan 19 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

JLOL, on Jan 19 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

I think that south has not yet shown 3 hearts at any point in this auction.

I thought he did when he bid 2♥. But maybe I just don't understand the system.

This is a style issue. You need a rebid with a 4=2=3=4 and no diamond stop. Some rebid 2♥; others (me included) bid 2♠. That being said, South will absolutely rebid 3♥ with a 4=3=3=3 over 2N.

Quote

did you mean this, or did you mean that he would bid 3♥ with 4=3=2=4?

Yes I meant it. 4324 is also a possibility. With a double diamond stop and weak hearts, I would also expect 3N.

Quote

If you meant it as you posted it, we know that it isn't true... he bid 3n with your 4333.

Maybe the poster played that 2♥ unconditionally promised 3.