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2 suiter after 1D-3D

#1 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-November-30, 18:08

♠ K
♥ AKT84
♦ Q
♣ AQT732

All vul, imps.

(1♦) - pass - (3♦) - ?

Now, sir, it's your turn. What is your medicine?

They play 5card spades, 4card hearts, 1♦ shows 4+, strong NT. 3♦ is purely preemptive.
Michael Askgaard
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#2 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2008-November-30, 22:18

3♥

4♣ leaping michaels with regular p
We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak. Quoted by Albert Einstein.
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#3 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 02:13

Now everybody knows to bid 4♣, showing 5-5 with a major with this hand.

Next time when you post a hand of the same strength but 2317, everybody will bid 4♣, showing clubs.

If 4♣ doesn't show a major also, I must bid 3♥.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#4 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 02:17

gwnn, on Dec 1 2008, 03:13 AM, said:

Now everybody knows to bid 4♣, showing 5-5 with a major with this hand.

Next time when you post a hand of the same strength but 2317, everybody will bid 4♣, showing clubs.

No I'll be an honest fellow and just curse politely when I'm 2317.

I'll try 4NT. It's getting higher than necessary if we end in hearts, but I like my odds much better if I get both suits into the picture. But yes in reality I could of course bid 4♣, clubs and a major.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#5 User is offline   effervesce 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 04:33

What's so bad about playing 4♦ here as any two-suiter instead of both majors? You retain the ability to show natural clubs.
Ming

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#6 User is offline   ASkolnick 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 10:24

The only problem is if partner is 4-3 in the majors, he bids 4♠, but I agree with bidding 4♦ as a 2 suiter.
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#7 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 10:28

It would be nice on this hand, but does anyone actually have the agreement that a cuebid on auctions like this is any two suits? And how do you reconcile it with auctions where the cuebid is Michaels? Count me out if the whole gain is to bid 4 of the other minor naturally.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#8 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 11:50

Josh, do you seriously play that 4C shows a 2-suiter?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 11:57

han, on Dec 1 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

Josh, do you seriously play that 4C shows a 2-suiter?

Yes, just like if they opened 3♦ on my right.

Do you think acting shocked makes it seem unbelievable? It's not a particularly strange agreement.
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#10 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 12:38

It's not a strange agreement at all, it is standard in some places but I didn't expect you to play it.

By shocked, do you mean: Something that jars the mind or emotions as if with a violent unexpected blow?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#11 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 12:40

I sometimes play 4C as two-suited here. In one partnership I played that four of a minor was two-suited in all situations where:

- Opponents have shown one real suit, or one unspecified major (but may also have opened 1NT or a loose club or diamond)
- Opponents have not promised game-forcing or invitational values.
- It’s the bidder’s first chance to act
- Bidder’s partner has done nothing but pass or open/overcall 1NT
- The bidding is now at the two- or three-level
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 12:47

han, on Dec 1 2008, 01:38 PM, said:

By shocked, do you mean: Something that jars the mind or emotions as if with a violent unexpected blow?

I think so. The truth is I'm simply bitter since for the life of me I don't know how you and Helene can just change your allocated bridge hands on a whim.
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#13 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 13:43

4♦, which I actually play as showing any two-suiter.

Occasionally I will end up at the five-level when partner bids 4♠.
Adam W. Meyerson
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#14 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 16:38

3♥ + 5♣.
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#15 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-December-01, 17:01

We don't play non-leaping michaels, because I don't fancy that convention. Also, 4♦ shows both majors, and 4♦ followed by 5♣ would thus be a slam try.

What would you bid in that context?

So far, we have a couple of votes for 3♥ and 1 vote for 4NT. More votes/comments are most velcome. ;)
Michael Askgaard
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#16 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-December-02, 01:53

I try 4 ♣ to show clubs.

In this particular hand game may be as often good in clubs as in hearts.
And as a bouns: When they compete, I am able to show my second suit.

And sometimes, I need to say sorry team, I messed it up and missed 4 Heart. But hey, they are used to this.
Kind Regards

Roland


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More system is not the answer...
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#17 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2008-December-04, 04:52

Scoring: imps


I know what happened at 5 of the tables were the auction started 1♦-p-3♦ to south.

One S tried 3♥ and played there for 170.
One S tried 4♥, 620. Ugly but practical.
One S could bid 4♣ michaels and ended up with 1370.
Two S (including me) tried X and 5♣ over partner's 4♠, which was passed at both tables after a long tank each time. 620.

The scores were 2*1370, 9*620, 1*170.

Double might look very ugly, but for me it was that or 4NT. The stiff ♠K & ♦Q made me pessimistic about finding partner with much, so I decided not to risk a 5♥-1 scenario via 4NT.

After X, my plan was to bid 4♥ over 3♠ (followed by 5♣ if partner persisted with 4♠) and 5♣ over 4♠. After preempts X+bid is not a pronounced one-suiter but a more flexible hand that wants to hear from partner regarding strain.
Michael Askgaard
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