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Takeout?

#1 User is offline   maggieb 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 03:11

Matchpoints
Both Vulnerable

♠ Q98
♥ xx
♦ 98xxx
♣ xxx

(2♥) - x - (4♥) - P
(P) - x - (P) - ?
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion. :)
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#2 User is offline   H_KARLUK 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 03:30

"Ab so lu te ly" t/o by Partner in our book.
We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak. Quoted by Albert Einstein.
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#3 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 03:46

I tend to take out my partner's takeout doubles, but on this hand I'd pass and hope they go down. If partner passes 5♦ we aren't going to make it, and playing for 5♦ to be a save is a fairly extreme position.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#4 User is offline   paulg 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 04:27

Double is takeout with extra values.

I have a clear pass. In this position I'd need a sixth diamond to consider bidding.

Paul
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I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
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#5 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 04:30

t/o, but there is no law against passing a
t/o double.

The problem is, you have to guess, if your
partner has 4 tricks in his hand, or if a
contract is cheaper.

5 diamonds is a long way to go, 4Hx= will
cost you 790, 5Dx-3 will cost you 800,
take you pick.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 04:45

There are 19 total tricks so it's possible that 4♥ and 5♦ goes down. OTOH if either contract goes two down I have to bid.

I think it's close.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 05:05

P_Marlowe, on Nov 6 2008, 11:30 AM, said:

5 diamonds is a long way to go, 4Hx= will
cost you 790, 5Dx-3 will cost you 800,
take you pick.

If that's the choice, there probably won't be much difference in matchpoints between the two. It seems more sensible to assume that one action will lead to a good score and one will lead to a bad score.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 05:41

maggieb, on Nov 6 2008, 11:11 AM, said:

Matchpoints
Both Vulnerable

♠ Q98
♥ xx
♦ 98xxx
♣ xxx

(2♥) - x - (4♥) - P
(P) - x - (P) - ?

I would hate this at IMPs, but at MP's I find it a clear-cut pass.

Not only is being wrong not as costly as it would be at IMPs, but partner also needs a few less excuses to double on an off-shape and /or borderline hand.
_____________________________________

Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

_____________________________________

We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.


Gnasher
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#9 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 05:43

Pass.

Yes partner's double is takeout, but with such a flat hand passing is the normal action. You hope that 4♥ goes down. Often it won't, but 5♦ will make much less often.
That's impossible. No one can give more than one hundred percent. By definition that is the most anyone can give.
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#10 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 07:16

Pass. No I don't like it much. Why does partner bid so much when I have such a lousy hand?
"Phil" on BBO
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#11 User is offline   Edmunte1 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 08:01

Yes, still take-out, showing extras (17+ with singleton ♥, 20+ with dblt), and yes i'll pass with this balanced hand
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#12 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:05

I hate that these are called takeout, when you know partner won't 'take out' with a balanced nothing. If after

2♥ X P

you always passed with this sort of hand, would you still describe your partner's call as a takeout double?

I agree with the field on what the double looks like and that I would pass, but I hate using the same description for both doubles.
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#13 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:45

The thing is, when responding to a double of a 1♥ opening or a double of a 6♥ opening, in both cases you play p for appr. 4144. So it makes sense that the same term is used for both doubles. Of course, the higher the level the less trumps you need to convert it.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#14 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:50

It is not clear, if the 2nd X is based on a hand with
a t/o shape.
It could well be, that partner happens to have a
balanced power house, I dont know.
If he is balanced, he will have lots of add. strength,
if not, he could be slightly weaker.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#15 User is offline   jtfanclub 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:55

helene_t, on Nov 6 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

The thing is, when responding to a double of a 1♥ opening or a double of a 6♥ opening, in both cases you play p for appr. 4144. So it makes sense that the same term is used for both doubles. Of course, the higher the level the less trumps you need to convert it.

But in this case, you aren't really showing anything about shape with the second X, are you?

You doubled the first time, which showed appr. 4144. You don't need a second double to say "I still have the same 13 cards I had the previous round of bidding". I don't see how the second X has anything to do with shape. It's just tricks.
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#16 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 10:56

I also pass and hope PD can set it since I expect either 5♦ or 4♠ to be a bloodbath.
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#17 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2008-November-06, 21:59

It is a takeout double repeated. I will Pass because the likelihood we make 5D is slim to nil while the likelihood that 4HX goes down is better. If it makes, we get minus 790 instead of minus 800 (or more).
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