[han]

Q10x
10xxxx
Q
K109x

KJx
KQx
AKJxxx
x

South deals, the opponents are silent. How would you bid these two hands?

[gnasher]

1♦-1♥
3♦-3NT

[helene_t]

Yes.

[pclayton]

I think most auctions lead to 3N.

1♠ is also a possible rebid possible with the South hand.

[TimG]

I think a KS auction would start 1D-1H-1S-1N with 1N showing 8 points of fewer. Opener would now bid 2H to show this type of hand. Whether responder takes another bid, I don't know, but I imagine opener would carry on to game with any further action from responder.

Playing standard methods, I don't see much way to avoid 1D-1H-3D-3N. Aren't there some gimmicks to show this 3-card raise type (the BW death hand).

[gnasher]

If we're allowed gimmicks, I bid
1♦ 1♥
2♠      Various raises
   2NT  Relay
3♦      6-3 invitation
4♥

The cost of playing an artificial 2♠ in this auction is small: how often do you want to bid 1♦-1♥; 1♠-pass?

[dake50]

2D-2NT-
3NT.

Using 2D =13-17, 5+D, usu no 4cM.

[shaztaz]

Playing WJ2005, it may go

1D 1H
3D 3H?4H?

3D shows 15-17 with 6 diamonds and 3 hearts, so the heart fit is uncovered. Whether North can now bid 4H rather than signing off in 3H is questionable....

[rogerclee]

1D 1H
2S 2N
3H 4H

I think the south hand is worth a GF as 3D will cause us to miss too many games, more than the amount of bad games we will get to by GFing. Even if I didn't think it was worth a GF I would just overbid so that we have a much better shot at finding the right game/slam than by bidding 3D.

[FrancesHinden]

I agree with both of gnasher's auctions.
One way of seeing that the South hand is not a game force is that North has (just) a hand worth a move over 3D, has a fitting diamond honour, and you have an 8-card heart fit, and yet neither game is wonderful.

[rogerclee]

FWIW I would pass 3D all day with the north hand and not think twice about it.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1D - 1H
3D - Pass

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Free]

1♦ - 1♥
2NT! - 3♣!
3♦! - 3♥
4♥

2NT = 18-19 bal / GF 4♥ / GF 6+♦3♥
3♣ = relay
3♦ = 5+♦, no 3♥ unless 6-3

[kenrexford]

pclayton, on Oct 18 2008, 03:23 PM, said:

I think most auctions lead to 3N.

1♠ is also a possible rebid possible with the South hand.

That's what I was thinking...

1♦-1♥
1♠-1NT-
2♥-3♥
4♥

I might stop in 2♥.

[rogerclee]

kenrexford, on Oct 19 2008, 01:36 PM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 18 2008, 03:23 PM, said:

I think most auctions lead to 3N.

1♠ is also a possible rebid possible with the South hand.

That's what I was thinking...

1♦-1♥
1♠-1NT-
2♥-3♥
4♥

I might stop in 2♥.

Bidding over 2H on this auction is really crazy, it is normal for partner to bid this way with all 5431 15 counts and some nice 5431 14 counts.

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on Oct 19 2008, 03:27 AM, said:

1D 1H
2S 2N
3H 4H

I think the south hand is worth a GF as 3D will cause us to miss too many games, more than the amount of bad games we will get to by GFing. Even if I didn't think it was worth a GF I would just overbid so that we have a much better shot at finding the right game/slam than by bidding 3D.

The general statement is fine, but what makes you think jump shifting into a three card major gives you any sort of a better shot at finding the right strain?

[rogerclee]

I think we rate to find a better strain by bidding 2S rather than 3D because we will be able to depict a hand with short clubs, and we will be able to show our 3 card support. Of course if partner is 4-4 in the majors this could backfire (although it might not, 4M might be better than 3N in that case anyways), but overall we do a much better job describing our general hand type and we give partner more room so he is not endplayed over 3D. Partner is not going to rebid a mediocre 5 card heart suit over 3D very often, and might be endplayed into bidding 3N with Jxx/Qxx of clubs or whatever when he wouldn't if he knew we had short clubs. I guess it's up for debate but to me it seems clear that on average bidding 2S will lead to us getting to the right strain more often than bidding 3D. I also think it will get us to the right level more often too.

[the hog]

Free's auction if gadgets are allowed.
Otherwise 1D 1H 3D 3NT
Bidding 3NT is pushy, byt the Q of D is a great card.
I think a jump shift to 2S totally misrepresents the hand.

[han]

FrancesHinden, on Oct 19 2008, 05:18 AM, said:

One way of seeing that the South hand is not a game force is that North has (just) a hand worth a move over 3D, has a fitting diamond honour, and you have an 8-card heart fit, and yet neither game is wonderful.

I think that 3NT is a very good contract. 4H not so.

[mikeh]

rogerclee, on Oct 19 2008, 05:20 AM, said:

FWIW I would pass 3D all day with the north hand and not think twice about it.

I cannot imagine passing with that diamond Q (and the rest of the hand, of course). That card has to fill in his suit.. if not to create 6 winners immediately, then surely to establish 5 with his having compensating strength elsewhere if the Q doesn't solidify his suit.