[InTime]

N.....E.....S.....W
3D..3NT..Pass..?

---

How do you bid this hand sitting East / West?
Is Stayman and Transfers still applicable here?

[Apollo81]

Most people do play transfers in this auction. If you play that, then West should transfer and bid 5♦. If you don't, I think West should just bid 6♠.

[rogerclee]

Apollo81, on Oct 20 2008, 09:50 AM, said:

Most people do play transfers in this auction.  If you play that, then West should transfer and bid 5♦. If you don't, I think West should just bid 6♠.

Yes, agree. Most people play stayman too.

[gnasher]

In the partnerships where I've discussed this, 4♣ is a range ask, 4♦ is a signoff, and 4M is a non-forcing slam try. On this hand I'd bid the range ask, hear of a minimum, and bid 6♠.

[Echognome]

Agree that it's very difficult to find the best contract: 6NT.

I have agreed both a range/hand type ask and transfers with my regular partners. Not sure how I would bid the West hand, but I cannot imagine stopping short of slam.

[helene_t]

Jack Zhao & Zhong Fu play two-under transfers: 4♣->hearts, 4♦->spades. The extra room allows overcaller to tell whether he would accept a slam try.

[pclayton]

Yes Stayman should apply, but you an also play some sort of 'inquiry' with 4♣ to determine opener's hand type. Transfers obviously apply.

Agree with the transfer / cue idea. I'm not stopping short of 6 with this hand.

[Codo]

I would just bid 6 Spade, because I have no agreements what to do after pds 3 NT bid.

[gnasher]

pclayton, on Oct 21 2008, 04:24 AM, said:

Transfers obviously apply.

That's not at all obvious to me. Transfers work well if advancer is strong enough to go to the five level. If, however, advancer wants to invite a slam without going past 4M, it's better to play either two-under transfers or 4♦ as a signoff somewhere with 4M invitational.

[FrancesHinden]

pclayton, on Oct 21 2008, 04:24 AM, said:

Yes Stayman should apply, but you an also play some sort of 'inquiry' with 4♣ to determine opener's hand type. Transfers obviously apply.

Agree with the transfer / cue idea. I'm not stopping short of 6 with this hand.

There's no 'obviously' or 'should' about it at all.

Stayman & Transfers assume that partner has a balanced hand of a defined range.
This reminds me of the suggestion that after (1NT) penalty double (P) you should play Stayman and Transfers.

In fact, I think that the best method of continuation depends on exactly what the opening bid was (although in practice I play the same as gnasher).

It's also obvious to me that, of all the methods you could play, stayman is one of the least useful. It's not the hunt for a 4-4 major suit fit that should be anywhere high on your list of priorities once the auction has started (3x) 3NT.

Here are some of the things you want to do as responder:
- sign off in a suit
- ask opener what sort of hand is has (max/min, based on a long suit or balanced)
- show a single-suited slam try
- show a 2-suited slam try

there isn't room to do all of those, never mind more

[effervesce]

Quote

Here are some of the things you want to do as responder:
- sign off in a suit
- ask opener what sort of hand is has (max/min, based on a long suit or balanced)
- show a single-suited slam try
- show a 2-suited slam try

there isn't room to do all of those, never mind more

Just made these up just now for fun (probably not practical)-
4D = signoff in a major or slam try in a minor (ie puppet to 4H then correct to your suit) or slam try in a minor(s) (rebid 4NT slam try minors, 5m slam try in the minor)
4C = hand type ask
......4D = long minor
.....4H = 4H longer minor
.....4S = 4S longer minor
.....4NT = bal
4H = hearts + another slam try
4S = spades + minor try
4NT = inv
5m = to play

[pclayton]

gnasher, on Oct 20 2008, 11:57 PM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 21 2008, 04:24 AM, said:

Transfers obviously apply.

That's not at all obvious to me. Transfers work well if advancer is strong enough to go to the five level. If, however, advancer wants to invite a slam without going past 4M, it's better to play either two-under transfers or 4♦ as a signoff somewhere with 4M invitational.

Obviously you give up something in any method.

Frankly I don't play Stayman here in any partnership, but I would assume it applied without discussion. There are hands where it is useful.

I do like yours and Frances' method, but here's what Matt and I play:

4♣: Inquiry into hand type; 1st = minimum bal, 2nd = max bal, 3rd = min with source of tricks, 4th maximum with source of tricks.

4♦: Hearts
4♥: Clubs
4♣: Diamonds

(I think - this is one of those bids that comes up about every 40 sessions)