[kenrexford]

1NT, because that's my agreement.

If I did not play constructive or semi-constructive raises, 2♠.

This is really a stupid question. Anyone who provides arguments as to what he would respond based on an analysis of the pros and cons of the situation and the strengths and weaknesses of the hand is bidding like a friggin' moron. You either have agreed to constructive raises or you have not. If you have, you must bid 1NT. If you have not, you must bid 2♠. If you have an agreement and do something other than what your agreement calls for, you are dangerous and foolish. If you do not like your agreement because of this hand, for some reason, then feel free to change your agreement. But, don't argue like somehow this one is a close call or something. This is a simple crap raise and nothing more.

[han]

So if you don't play constructive raises then you raise on 3-counts. I disagree.

[P_Marlowe]

Apollo81, on Oct 10 2008, 11:37 AM, said:

For the record, I agree with the raise to 2♠, and I don't hate a 1NT response.

Suppose you switched the suits around a little such that the hand was KTxx xx xxxx xxx. Does this change your opinion of the situation?

Suppose partner opened 1♥ and your hand was xx KTxx xxxx xxx. Does this change your opinion of the situation?

I would respond 1NT in one of the two above cases.

No, I would still raise, the alternative being Pass.

Of course I would be happy to have a forcing NT
available, which would allow me to bid 1NT.

If I play nonforcing NT, bidding NT feels like hogging
(spelling?) the hand.
Ok, I am playing with a beginner, but hopefully with
the purpose to improve his ability, and the best way to
do this to let him play reasonable contracts, 2m wont
be too bad, it will also tell him that it is fine to respond
with less than 6HCP, espesially if you happen to have
a good fit.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Edmunte1]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 10 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

The original post did mention, that opener is a beginner,
so choosing the book bid, cannot be complete garbage,
the given hand does not contain 6HCP.
... it may make partner feel more secure for the boards to
come.

I disagree. If you're playing with a beginner, you should try teach him something. Bridge is primarily a game of suits, not of points. And this board should be a good example.

[P_Marlowe]

Edmunte1, on Oct 14 2008, 04:30 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 10 2008, 11:35 AM, said:

The original post did mention, that opener is a beginner,
so choosing the book bid, cannot be complete garbage,
the given hand does not contain 6HCP.
... it may make partner feel more secure for the boards to
come.

I disagree. If you're playing with a beginner, you should try teach him something. Bridge is primarily a game of suits, not of points. And this board should be a good example.

I am not against raising.
I prefer 2P over Pass, but Pass over 1NT.
More precise, I can live with either 2S and Pass, but in the
given setting 1NT is not an alternative.
..........................................................................................
Raising showes the fit, and the (9 card) fit is certainly
enough compensation for the missing high card power,
and I will be able to explain this to the beginner.

On the other hand bidding 1 NT denies a primary fit,
which means, the bid gurantees a certain amount of high
card power, since you cant yet rely on distributional
compensation, because you dont, if you have a fit or not.

Now tell me, what would a beginner learn from me, if I happen
to choose to bid a nonforcing 1 NT?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

kenrexford, on Oct 14 2008, 03:09 AM, said:

This is really a stupid question.  Anyone who provides arguments as to what he would respond based on an analysis of the pros and cons of the situation and the strengths and weaknesses of the hand is bidding like a friggin' moron.  You either have agreed to constructive raises or you have not.  If you have, you must bid 1NT.  If you have not, you must bid 2♠.

I don't agree.

I agree that system is relevant, but there is still a decision. I don't know what basic SAYC actually says about raising partner.

If you have agreed constructive 2-level raises, pre-emptive 3-level raises and that a bad 3-card raise bids 1NT you have the choice of pass, 3S or 1NT

If you have not agreed constructive or pre-emptive raises you have the choice of 2S, pass or a potentially (semi-)psychic 1NT

There's no 'must' about any of this. In traditional bidding, as taught to beginners, the technically correct call is to pass as you don't have enough to respond.

[kenrexford]

I find it hard to believe that passing with four-card support, a doubleton, and one control is ever right. But, if you are conservative, then the dispute should be between 1NT (because you have that tool available) and pass (because you do not). Assessing values for 1NT, 2M, and P is silliness. Assessing values between 2M and P, for those who do not use constructive raises, is the only logical analysis possible.