[gwnn]

xxxx
KTxx
xxx
xx

partner, a beginner, opens 1♠. you play sayc. unfavorable.


if you try pass,

Spoiler

there are no further questions

if you try 1NT,

Spoiler

it will go 1♠-p-1NT-3♣, 3♠-p-?

if you try 2♠,

Spoiler

no further questions

[rogerclee]

2♠, I support with support, and this gives us a much better shot at stealing than 1N. The playing strength of this hand is about that of a minimum 2♠ bid anyway.

[han]

1NT, I pass 3S.

[MarkDean]

I would bid 2S.

I do not get 1NT with four card support, especially when it is not forcing. Are we afraid 2S will excite partner too much (I happen to think this is a decent hand for spades), or that 1NT is better for stealing (by letting them come in a level lower?)?

[TylerE]

2♠ = 10
Pass = 8
1NT = 0

[pclayton]

1N. If you bid 2♠ with hands like this you haven't been around enough.

I pass 3♠. It might make 4 of course, but when I bid 1N I really didn't have any intent to participate with game tries.

[P_Marlowe]

2S.

The alternative being Pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rogerclee]

pclayton, on Oct 10 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

If you bid 2♠ with hands like this you haven't been around enough.

Please justify this statement. Have you been keeping a record of what happens on bad hands with 4-card spade support?

I happen to be very happy with my record of bidding spades when I have spades.

[jdonn]

I would bid 2♠. Am I the only one not so pigheaded that I don't absolutely hate the bid I don't choose??

[rogerclee]

TylerE, on Oct 10 2008, 08:13 AM, said:

2♠ = 10
Pass = 8
1NT = 0

Pass = 8, 1NT = 0?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!??!!? WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[pclayton]

rogerclee, on Oct 10 2008, 08:07 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 10 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

If you bid 2♠ with hands like this you haven't been around enough.

Please justify this statement. Have you been keeping a record of what happens on bad hands with 4-card spade support?

I happen to be very happy with my record of bidding spades when I have spades.

SOP dude. Yeah, actually I have about ten recent instances where I have bid 1N with a weak hand with 4 (or 5) card support. It usually works, although its hard to measure the effectiveness sometimes against 2♠. Pass is for sheep btw.

What is your goal here? I have two:

1. There is an outside chance we have game. I've even heard about some people that open 1♠ with 10 tricks and a prime 24

2. I want to 'buy it' at a low level if possible. This is what 1N frequently achieves.

3. I don't want my opponents to know how many trumps we have.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Oct 10 2008, 08:10 AM, said:

I would bid 2♠. Am I the only one not so pigheaded that I don't absolutely hate the bid I don't choose??

What? Has the Venetian implemented sensitivity training all of a sudden?

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Oct 10 2008, 11:21 AM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 10 2008, 08:10 AM, said:

I would bid 2♠. Am I the only one not so pigheaded that I don't absolutely hate the bid I don't choose??

What? Has the Venetian implemented sensitivity training all of a sudden?

I'm not sure, if I ever work there I'll find out for you!

If they have math classes, I'll sign you up for that too

pclayton, on Oct 10 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

What is your goal here? I have two:

1.
2.
3.

[rogerclee]

pclayton, on Oct 10 2008, 09:18 AM, said:

rogerclee, on Oct 10 2008, 08:07 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 10 2008, 08:28 AM, said:

If you bid 2♠ with hands like this you haven't been around enough.

Please justify this statement. Have you been keeping a record of what happens on bad hands with 4-card spade support?

I happen to be very happy with my record of bidding spades when I have spades.

SOP dude. Yeah, actually I have about ten recent instances where I have bid 1N with a weak hand with 4 (or 5) card support. It usually works, although its hard to measure the effectiveness sometimes against 2♠. Pass is for sheep btw.

What is your goal here? I have two:

1. There is an outside chance we have game. I've even heard about some people that open 1♠ with 10 tricks and a prime 24

2. I want to 'buy it' at a low level if possible. This is what 1N frequently achieves.

3. I don't want my opponents to know how many trumps we have.

1. This has never occurred. Dude I was joking, I was logged in as kfay on BBO obv lol.
2. 1NT will not only allow the opponents to come in at the 2-level and have more space, but it will also give their interference more integrity. Coming in over 2♠ is less strongly defined than coming in over 1NT.
3. The opponents know how many trumps they have.

I understand 1NT, but I think the preemptive effect of 2♠ just has too much going for it. I agree that pass has absolutely no merit.

[P_Marlowe]

Just a comment, why Pass is not completly pointless:

The original post did mention, that opener is a beginner,
so choosing the book bid, cannot be complete garbage,
the given hand does not contain 6HCP.
... it may make partner feel more secure for the boards to
come.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Apollo81]

For the record, I agree with the raise to 2♠, and I don't hate a 1NT response.

Suppose you switched the suits around a little such that the hand was KTxx xx xxxx xxx. Does this change your opinion of the situation?

Suppose partner opened 1♥ and your hand was xx KTxx xxxx xxx. Does this change your opinion of the situation?

I would respond 1NT in one of the two above cases.

[FrancesHinden]

Playing with a beginner I think you should either pass (not enough to respond) or raise to 2S (4-card support makes it worth an action).

1NT is a lot more tempting when you aren't vulnerable. Yes, it works sometimes (I've managed +110 scoring up with +420 as well) but it's not something I think you should do with a beginner, particularly when I'm not toally convinced this is the right vulnerability for it.

[han]

jdonn, on Oct 10 2008, 11:24 AM, said:

If they have math classes, I'll sign you up for that too

Scary thought, Clayton in a math class. Brrr.

[cherdano]

I would bid 2♠. I average about +1.72 IMPs (+/- 0.6) when doing this with a weak hand with 4 weak spades.

[pclayton]

han, on Oct 10 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

jdonn, on Oct 10 2008, 11:24 AM, said:

If they have math classes, I'll sign you up for that too 

Scary thought, Clayton in a math class. Brrr.

Yeah, he'd probably question everything