[blackshoe]

Scoring: MP

---

Partner opens 1♣, RHO pases. Your call?

[mike777]

If you play sjs of course 2d is fine....

if you don't and many do not 1d is fine.

[matmat]

if you have sjs followups discussed, then sure. if not 1d is forcing enough.

[fred]

matmat, on Sep 25 2008, 03:00 AM, said:

if you have sjs followups discussed, then sure. if not 1d is forcing enough.

IMO it would be very wrong to jump shift with this hand.

In general I would say that you should not jump shift when you have a hand in which you plan to drive to slam regardless of how the bidding goes.

In general I would say that you should think of a jump shift as a "statement" as opposed to a "question". More specifically, the jump shifter's statement should pertain to the direction he is heading in - he should clarify his direction with his rebid (typically by setting trumps).

This hand has question written all over it. You don't know what trump suit (if any) you want to play in so you should give your partner as much space as possible to help you resolve this issue.

There is no need to panic as you will be able to maintain control of the auction regardless of what partner bids over your 1D response.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[mike777]

I do not see 2d taking up that much bidding space compared to what we tellpartner on this one. Assume we play sjs.

[Walddk]

Fred's words could have been mine. Basically, as responder you should ask yourself the following two questions (in the right order):

- 1. Where are we going to play?
- 2. How high are we going to play?

It's paramount that you get an answer to question 1 before you proceed to the next question. With this hand you have no idea where you are going to play. Accordingly, do not jump around and take bidding room away from yourself. The opponents will not interfere.

Good cards should be bid slowly in order to investigate all possible strains. As long as you bid a new suit, partner will bid again, and you will be much wiser before too long. Respond 1♦ and take it from there.

Roland

[SlickRicky]

Hi,

What's the rush? Start with 1D and see what develops.

Ricky

[effervesce]

IMO for a SJS you either need a self-sufficient suit or good support for partner as otherwise the SJS removes space necessary to find the right strain.

So, after 1♣-1♦
if partner rebids 1M (I prefer 1M rebids with unbalanced hands) he/she is likely to have a 5m-4M type hand-bid the fourth suit game forcing (ie the other major - if 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠ is fourth suit or 2♠ is fourth suit forcing)-then after partner's next bid, support clubs and setting trump.

E.g.:

1♣-1♦
1♥-2♠ (fourth suit forcing)
3♣-4♣
4♦-4NT (4♦ shows A/K/Q in diamonds) 4NT RKCB for clubs
5♣-7NT (5♣ 0 or 3, obviously 3)

will reach the grand when partner has xx Axxx Qx AKxxx

If partner rebids 1NT, then you can either bash 6NT, or bid more slowly if you play two-way checkback.

Eg
1♣-1♦
1NT-2♦ (2♦ game-forcing checkback)
If partner now bids 2x, you bid 3♦, if partner bids 3♣ showing 5 clubs, bid 4♣.

Eg with
xxx Axx Qxx AKxx the bidding will go
1♣-1♦
1NT-2♦
2NT-3♦
4♣-4NT (4♣ cue in own suit should show two of the top 3 honors)
5♠-7NT (5♠ two key cards + Q diamonds)

[mike777]

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

you miss nothing on these example hands. in fact some of these auctions are much more difficult than simple sjs.

[blackshoe]

Thanks all. Pretty much what I eventually concluded I should have done. At the table, I bid 2♦. Partner rebid 2NT, and I jumped to 6NT. Partner eschewed the diamond finesse, even though taking it would not jeopardize the contract, so missed the overtrick. She had, iirc, S QJxx H Axx D xx C AKxx.

The post-mortem was interesting. We had not discussed it, so I felt that we should both be on the same wavelength - that jump shifts were strong, not weak. But partner said after the hand "Nobody plays strong jump shifts anymore. I almost passed."

Yeah, my bidding sucked.

[mike777]

blackshoe, on Sep 25 2008, 12:02 AM, said:

Thanks all. Pretty much what I eventually concluded I should have done. At the table, I bid 2♦. Partner rebid 2NT, and I jumped to 6NT. Partner eschewed the diamond finesse, even though taking it would not jeopardize the contract, so missed the overtrick. She had, iirc, S QJxx H Axx D xx C AKxx.

The post-mortem was interesting. We had not discussed it, so I felt that we should both be on the same wavelength - that jump shifts were strong, not weak. But partner said after the hand "Nobody plays strong jump shifts anymore. I almost passed." 

Yeah, my bidding sucked.

lol just rebid 3c no problem yet........
you can always correct to 6nt....7nt later...


1c=2d
2nt=3c
4c=4d rkc now you take control....

no checkback
no 4sf

of course if no sjs 1d gets you there also. just more bids.

[the hog]

Why do you want to jump on this hand? Take things slowly and bid 1D.

[blackshoe]

Hm. I was just thinking. If the auction had started 1♣-1♦-1NT, I'd have been in much the same boat as I actually was. My thinking at the table was that we had 34-36 points between us, and were both balanced, and that's why I jumped to 6NT. I would probably have the same thoughts on this auction.

In fact though, it would have gone 1♣-1♦-1♠. We do not have 4th suit forcing available (I've tried, but...). So now what? Bid 2♥ anyway? At least it's forcing.

[cherdano]

If you don't play 4th suit forcing, then I think 2♦ is right. But really...

[Walddk]

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

It does for a couple of reasons. First, have you discussed whether 2M from opener next is a reverse or not? Second, if he rebids 2NT, how will you be able to determine whether you belong in a small or grand slam? Please don't tell us that 4♣ by responder now will be keycard asking. That will get you nowhere. It won't be a major surprise that you have them all.

If he is balanced, it's much more important to find out if he has five clubs and/or three diamonds. Hence, you are in a much better position if you respond 1♦ and get a 1NT rebid. Now you can check back at a low level and determine the exact shape opposite.

Qxx
Axx
xxx
AKxx

Now the grand slam is on a finesse, and you don't want to bid it.

...

xxx
Axxx
Qx
AKJx

Qxx
Axx
xx
AKJxx

Opposite the first hand you have 14 top tricks, opposite the second 13. How are you supposed to know which of the three hands opener has after your jump to 2♦ followed by a 2NT rebid? And, if his rebid is 2M (is it a reverse or not?), how will you proceed?

With the hand you have here, it's not so much a question of whether you have all keycards or not (you most likely have them all); it's a question of being able to count tricks. So, take it easy and investigate. The auction may take a little longer if you respond 1♦. So what? There is no bonus for bidding fast.

Roland

[mike777]

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

It does for a couple of reasons. First, have you discussed whether 2M from opener next is a reverse or not? Second, if he rebids 2NT, how will you be able to determine whether you belong in a small or grand slam? Please don't tell us that 4♣ by responder now will be keycard asking. That will get you nowhere. It won't be a major surprise that you have them all.

If he is balanced, it's much more important to find out if he has five clubs and/or three diamonds. Hence, you are in a much better position if you respond 1♦ and get a 1NT rebid. Now you can check back at a low level and determine the exact shape opposite.

Qxx
Axx
xxx
AKxx

Now the grand slam is on a finesse, and you don't want to bid it.

...

xxx
Axxx
Qx
AKJx

Qxx
Axx
xx
AKJxx

Opposite the first hand you have 14 top tricks, opposite the second 13. How are you supposed to know which of the three hands opener has after your jump to 2♦ followed by a 2NT rebid? And, if his rebid is 2M (is it a reverse or not?), how will you proceed?

With the hand you have here, it's not so much a question of whether you have all keycards or not (you most likely have them all); it's a question of being able to count tricks. So, take it easy and investigate. The auction may take a little longer if you respond 1♦. So what? There is no bonus for bidding fast.

Roland

i have no idea what your post means....


1c=2d sjs...how is that bad?

see my other posts

how is 1d so much better?

if you open on crap you have problem i agree.

[Walddk]

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 09:11 AM, said:

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

It does for a couple of reasons. First, have you discussed whether 2M from opener next is a reverse or not? Second, if he rebids 2NT, how will you be able to determine whether you belong in a small or grand slam? Please don't tell us that 4♣ by responder now will be keycard asking. That will get you nowhere. It won't be a major surprise that you have them all.

If he is balanced, it's much more important to find out if he has five clubs and/or three diamonds. Hence, you are in a much better position if you respond 1♦ and get a 1NT rebid. Now you can check back at a low level and determine the exact shape opposite.

Qxx
Axx
xxx
AKxx

Now the grand slam is on a finesse, and you don't want to bid it.

...

xxx
Axxx
Qx
AKJx

Qxx
Axx
xx
AKJxx

Opposite the first hand you have 14 top tricks, opposite the second 13. How are you supposed to know which of the three hands opener has after your jump to 2♦ followed by a 2NT rebid? And, if his rebid is 2M (is it a reverse or not?), how will you proceed?

With the hand you have here, it's not so much a question of whether you have all keycards or not (you most likely have them all); it's a question of being able to count tricks. So, take it easy and investigate. The auction may take a little longer if you respond 1♦. So what? There is no bonus for bidding fast.

Roland

i have no idea what your post means....


1c=2d sjs...how is that bad?

see my other posts

I have seen your other posts and if you don't get it, there is apparently nothing I can do about it. In my last post I tried, pretty articulately but in vain it seems, to tell you why you ruin your auction by making a jump shift to 2♦.

I even gave you examples. No luck. Sorry, it must be me; I don't know how to explain things ... or, perhaps you have a problem with reading the written word?

Roland

[mike777]

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 02:17 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 09:11 AM, said:

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

It does for a couple of reasons. First, have you discussed whether 2M from opener next is a reverse or not? Second, if he rebids 2NT, how will you be able to determine whether you belong in a small or grand slam? Please don't tell us that 4♣ by responder now will be keycard asking. That will get you nowhere. It won't be a major surprise that you have them all.

If he is balanced, it's much more important to find out if he has five clubs and/or three diamonds. Hence, you are in a much better position if you respond 1♦ and get a 1NT rebid. Now you can check back at a low level and determine the exact shape opposite.

Qxx
Axx
xxx
AKxx

Now the grand slam is on a finesse, and you don't want to bid it.

...

xxx
Axxx
Qx
AKJx

Qxx
Axx
xx
AKJxx

Opposite the first hand you have 14 top tricks, opposite the second 13. How are you supposed to know which of the three hands opener has after your jump to 2♦ followed by a 2NT rebid? And, if his rebid is 2M (is it a reverse or not?), how will you proceed?

With the hand you have here, it's not so much a question of whether you have all keycards or not (you most likely have them all); it's a question of being able to count tricks. So, take it easy and investigate. The auction may take a little longer if you respond 1♦. So what? There is no bonus for bidding fast.

Roland

i have no idea what your post means....


1c=2d sjs...how is that bad?

see my other posts

I have seen your other posts and if you don't get it, there is apparently nothing I can do about it. In my last post I tried, pretty articulately but in vain it seems, to tell you why you ruin your auction by making a jump shift to 2♦.

I even gave you examples. No luck. Sorry, it must be me; I don't know how to explain things ... or, perhaps you have a problem with reading the written word?

Roland

what?

what are you talking about that I did not discuss pls?

1c=2d
?


i have no doubt 1c=1d may get you there but is 2d really that bad?

[Walddk]

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 09:20 AM, said:

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 02:17 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 09:11 AM, said:

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

It does for a couple of reasons. First, have you discussed whether 2M from opener next is a reverse or not? Second, if he rebids 2NT, how will you be able to determine whether you belong in a small or grand slam? Please don't tell us that 4♣ by responder now will be keycard asking. That will get you nowhere. It won't be a major surprise that you have them all.

If he is balanced, it's much more important to find out if he has five clubs and/or three diamonds. Hence, you are in a much better position if you respond 1♦ and get a 1NT rebid. Now you can check back at a low level and determine the exact shape opposite.

Qxx
Axx
xxx
AKxx

Now the grand slam is on a finesse, and you don't want to bid it.

...

xxx
Axxx
Qx
AKJx

Qxx
Axx
xx
AKJxx

Opposite the first hand you have 14 top tricks, opposite the second 13. How are you supposed to know which of the three hands opener has after your jump to 2♦ followed by a 2NT rebid? And, if his rebid is 2M (is it a reverse or not?), how will you proceed?

With the hand you have here, it's not so much a question of whether you have all keycards or not (you most likely have them all); it's a question of being able to count tricks. So, take it easy and investigate. The auction may take a little longer if you respond 1♦. So what? There is no bonus for bidding fast.

Roland

i have no idea what your post means....


1c=2d sjs...how is that bad?

see my other posts

I have seen your other posts and if you don't get it, there is apparently nothing I can do about it. In my last post I tried, pretty articulately but in vain it seems, to tell you why you ruin your auction by making a jump shift to 2♦.

I even gave you examples. No luck. Sorry, it must be me; I don't know how to explain things ... or, perhaps you have a problem with reading the written word?

Roland

what?

what are you talking about that I did not discuss pls?

1c=2d
?

Did you not ask this question ...

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far.

Did I not answer you? So what is it exactly you don't understand?

Roland

[mike777]

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 02:23 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 09:20 AM, said:

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 02:17 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 09:11 AM, said:

Walddk, on Sep 25 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 25 2008, 06:58 AM, said:

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far......4sf is far worse.

It does for a couple of reasons. First, have you discussed whether 2M from opener next is a reverse or not? Second, if he rebids 2NT, how will you be able to determine whether you belong in a small or grand slam? Please don't tell us that 4♣ by responder now will be keycard asking. That will get you nowhere. It won't be a major surprise that you have them all.

If he is balanced, it's much more important to find out if he has five clubs and/or three diamonds. Hence, you are in a much better position if you respond 1♦ and get a 1NT rebid. Now you can check back at a low level and determine the exact shape opposite.

Qxx
Axx
xxx
AKxx

Now the grand slam is on a finesse, and you don't want to bid it.

...

xxx
Axxx
Qx
AKJx

Qxx
Axx
xx
AKJxx

Opposite the first hand you have 14 top tricks, opposite the second 13. How are you supposed to know which of the three hands opener has after your jump to 2♦ followed by a 2NT rebid? And, if his rebid is 2M (is it a reverse or not?), how will you proceed?

With the hand you have here, it's not so much a question of whether you have all keycards or not (you most likely have them all); it's a question of being able to count tricks. So, take it easy and investigate. The auction may take a little longer if you respond 1♦. So what? There is no bonus for bidding fast.

Roland

i have no idea what your post means....


1c=2d sjs...how is that bad?

see my other posts

I have seen your other posts and if you don't get it, there is apparently nothing I can do about it. In my last post I tried, pretty articulately but in vain it seems, to tell you why you ruin your auction by making a jump shift to 2♦.

I even gave you examples. No luck. Sorry, it must be me; I don't know how to explain things ... or, perhaps you have a problem with reading the written word?

Roland

what?

what are you talking about that I did not discuss pls?

1c=2d
?

Did you not ask this question ...

no one has said how 2d eats up too much space on this one so far.

Did I not answer you? So what is it exactly you don't understand?

Roland

no you have not responded to my posts.

what is the issue?

first off many of these hands are 1nt opening but np