[mikeh]

Jlall, on Aug 29 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

Quote

You are constantly trying to do things like this, and you are constantly failing. The fact that you cannot see the difference in Qxx AQJx T8x AQx after 1S ? and JTx xxx AK9 AQTx after 1D ? IS COMPLETELY MIND BOGGLING. The fact that you try to call people out for understanding the differences in these hands is ROFLOL. Please continue to try to call me out on either being inconsistent or wrong, you will continue to fail, because the only thing you suck more at than bridge is logic.

If you even read my post IN THIS THREAD you will notice some of the differences immediately. You are not concerned with such things though.

Quote

I'm sure plenty of fine players would double and plenty would pass. Some get emotional about their choice and others don't. Personally I don't get that excited about it.

To each his own I guess.

Was this directed at me still? I will assume not since I SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.

Justin, I don't understand why you attack Phil this way... what makes you think that he was even referring to your post... you are not the only good player to comment on the merits of pass on this hand, and double on the other. And while you and I and, I assume many others, see a clear difference between the two hands (And I suspect Phil does as well), obviously (based on the comments for double) quite a few think that the two hands have significant similarities.

Your posts are usually welcome (you've had a couple of drunken posts that left me bewildered) but your status as a fine and successful player doesn't give you the right to think that everything is about you, or to go after another excellent poster with a personal attack.

And for a professional player to criticze the ability of an amateur player is rude.

[benlessard]

I think its bad to double RED at IMPs with borderline hands but good to do it at MP.

Here passing is very unlikely to cost a game while passing is more likely to lead to a + score than doubling.

[655321]

pclayton, on Aug 29 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

After the comments in this one:

Part Score battle

I'm surprised the thoughts in this thread are this subdued. Are the hands really that different? 

Well, yes they are. FWIW, I think that Q92 AQJ8 T82 AQ8 is a mandatory bid over 1♠, but I don't feel at all strongly about JTx 8xx AK9 AQTx over 1♦. I kind of like double, but I passed a similar hand at the table not long ago.

Even if the 2 situations were more similar I am not sure you would have a point.
Here are 2 hands that are much more similar:
1) KQx AQxx xx Kxxx
2) KQx AQxx Jx Kxxx

I would open hand (1) with 1♣, and hand (2) with 1NT. Are these hands really that different?

[mikeh]

Jlall, on Aug 30 2008, 01:10 AM, said:

.

Quote

xxx xxx x xxxxx, you snip the part where he QUOTES ME, then asks me a direct question? And then he makes an ambiguous statement where it is not clear if it is STILL directed at me, since his LAST part of the SAME post WAS directed at me (SINCE HE QUOTED ME AND THEN ASKED ME SOMETHING), so my reply is to say "IS THIS STILL DIRECTED AT ME? I WILL ASSUME NOT..."

xxxxxxxxxxxx buy a clue please you idiot.

Hey, it's good to know where you stand. Justin, one day maybe you will grow up. But, it looks like it will be a long, long time. Too bad.

This post has been edited by inquiry: 2008-September-01, 19:05

[ulven]

Lobowolf, on Aug 29 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

I wonder what a Bermuda Bowl winner would do.

There were a hand in the 1993 BB final between Norway and Netherlands where a famous norwegian X-ed on 4333 and minimum values and later his partner overcompeted and went for a number. They later told me that it wasn't the X that was wrong...

I can probably find the actual deal later or Harald can give the details.

[ulven]

Scoring: IMP

1♥ X 3♥ 4♠
pass pass X

---

Board 71. Helness - Helgemo went for -1100 vs 3♥ down 1 losing 15 imps.

[jdonn]

ulven, on Aug 30 2008, 04:50 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

1♥ X 3♥ 4♠
pass pass X 

---

Board 71. Helness - Helgemo went for -1100 vs 3♥ down 1 losing 15 imps.

- Perhaps I'm being simple minded, but a 14 count is different from a 12 count.
- Wouldn't you agree 4♠ is a definite overbid (or even a misbid)? Not to criticize great ones...

[uday]

uday: moved to watercooler ( obscenities, rudeness, personal attacks ). I'll erase this thread if this continues. Suggest

"I disagree with your position"
vs
"You are a moron"

but then, I'm not your mamma

[ulven]

jdonn, on Aug 30 2008, 10:13 AM, said:

- Perhaps I'm being simple minded, but a 14 count is different from a 12 count.
- Wouldn't you agree 4♠ is a definite overbid (or even a misbid)? Not to criticize great ones...

Sure agree on both accounts.

It was just posted as a reply regarding the question about Bermuda Bowl winners, as that jogged my memory and I recalled the conversation Geir and I had about this hand.

[skjaeran]

To me this is a very easy and obvious pass. I know some (very few) who disagree, though.

[Trinidad]

For me this is an easy pass, but it depends on style. I wouldn't dare to call the doublers nuts. (I would make more enemies than I can afford. )

My simple reasons why I won't double with this kind of hands. There are roughly three scenarios:

1) It is their hand. We don't want to be in the bidding with such poor suits.

2) It is our hand. The auction is expected to go 1♦-Pass-Pass and partner can act. I have quite a few possible bids avaiable to show partner that I have a decent hand that couldn't double at the first turn.
If LHO finds a bid with 5 points opposite 11, we will at worst loose a partscore, but probably they will be down for a tie (or win when they go down 2).

3) It is a 20-20 hand. The hand looks like a misfit: The side that wins the contract is the side that is likely to go minus. I don't want to win the contract.

Obviously, there are also scenarios where a double may lead to a good result and pass to a bad one, but the above three scenarios seem most likely to me.

Rik

[cherdano]

Jlall, on Aug 29 2008, 06:32 PM, said:

cherdano, on Aug 29 2008, 05:49 PM, said:

Nothing to do with skill level, there will be passers and doublers at pretty much any level. (But of course passers are wimps.)

There will be a higher ratio of doublers:passers the higher up the skill ladder you go.

There are also many on beginner/low intermediate level who routinely double when they have a weak NT because they can't stand passing when they would have opened. (Above a certain level I agree.)

Personally, I would double.

[han]

I would pass. Not at all surprised to see cherdano doubling.

[jvage]

To me this is close between pass and double. I can see myself choosing both, depending on vulnerability, opponents and time of day. In my experience doubling with 3334 (4 card in the unbid minor) and the appropiate strength has led to more good results than bad, but as mentioned by other posters the honour-location is not optimal on the given hand.

[brianshark]

I'm a passer, I'd double if the honours are in the Majors instead of the ♦ suit.

[Al_U_Card]

Pass (on the hand and on the vitriol being handed out by our should-know-better-than-that friends).

I would try 1 NT before I would double. After a double, pard will look at dummy and figure that I had to brb desperately.

[benlessard]

I think a major fact is how you can control the bidding after partner reopen with a X. With 13 pts and a double stopper you have an easy 2Nt. With 15 pts & Qxx in S with or without 4H its tougher. If you cue-bid are you forcing to game ? If so so might easily go overboard if partner X agressively.

Since 8 pts tend to be enough in balancing seats 14-15 pts hands are tough to handle after partner made a balancing double.

[the hog]

Totally obvious pass for me. I think double is not a good call unless you specifically play italian style t/o doubles. I think the "wusses" play bridge, others thow the die and let them land where they will.

[helene_t]

Proud to be a wuss.