[hrothgar]

CSGibson, on Aug 18 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

Warning:  I am venting a bit.

Playing in an Ax swiss event at a local sectional, 5th of 6 rounds and the team isn't doing as well as it should (about even on the day), and you are playing a team that you should beat. 

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ 8753 ♥ 752 ♦ 873 ♣ 962

Having been dealt the above hand, how bad is a 1♠ psyche at equal vulnerability 1st seat in a 2/1 partnership?

Few random thoughts:

1. Ceteris paribus a first seat white v white psyche isn't particulary appealing. I don't think that the bid will have a positive expected value

2. If I'm playing a team that I expect to beat I want to decrease the variance, not increase it.

3. From the sounds of things, the opponents are the sort who get very upset when folks psych. This makes psyching much more attractive. If the opponents get upset, their game will be off for several boards to come.

[hrothgar]

JoAnneM, on Aug 18 2008, 08:57 AM, said:

This is a team event? So you are do this to three people instead of just one partner? And how many other hands did you mastermind.

In an earleir thread I made the following suggestion:

"Stop teaching players that psyches are unethical"

Uday asked for specific examples where the ACBL was doing so. I referenced the old Don Oakie articles, but this provides a good example of the basic theme.

Admittedly, I'm quite sure that Jo Anne - she of the "Practice Goodwill and Active Ethics" signature - was posting in a private capacity and not speaking as District 20 President. Then again, one of the major criticism of the ACBL is their inability to foster clear and unambiguous lines of communication. We don't have the equivalent of the Orange Book or the White Book. Rather, we have a random collection of semi official opinions, most of which don't actually have any legal standing (see previous threads regarding Duplicate Decisions)

[han]

I think this whole thread is an overreaction. So partner made a bad psyche, what's the big deal? If I would go venting every time my partner made a bid I didn't like then I probably wouldn't live to my next birthday!

If partner plays badly, don't play with her. If she plays well but made a very poor decision here, tell her you didn't like it and then forget about it.

[SoTired]

han, on Aug 18 2008, 09:43 AM, said:

I think this whole thread is an overreaction. So partner made a bad psyche, what's the big deal? If I would go venting every time my partner made a bid I didn't like then I probably wouldn't live to my next birthday!

If partner plays badly, don't play with her. If she plays well but made a very poor decision here, tell her you didn't like it and then forget about it.

But partner made a successful psyche. (Bad, good, whose to say?) Of course, I might have a different opinion if the opps were beginners and the psycher was an expert.

The problem seems to be the reactions to the psyche. If I was the "partner" and made this psyche, I don't think I would want to play with the poster anymore.

[han]

Oh, I'd be more careful about discarding a partner. Two years ago I played in a side game at the Chicago nationals with a new partner. I made a more reasonable psyche, 1NT in 3rd chair white against red with a 7-card hear suit. We landed in 3H making for an absolutely normal score. We won the session and the event.

My partner was quite upset about this psyche, he told me after the game he didn't like it and that's all he said about it. But half a year later I heard from other people just how much he hated it. I just told him I wouldn't psyche again playing with him, and we played three days at the Nashville nationals. Without psyches.

[JoAnneM]

hrothgar, on Aug 18 2008, 01:16 PM, said:

JoAnneM, on Aug 18 2008, 08:57 AM, said:

This is a team event?  So you are do this to three people instead of just one partner?  And how many other hands did you mastermind.

In an earleir thread I made the following suggestion:

"Stop teaching players that psyches are unethical"

Uday asked for specific examples where the ACBL was doing so. I referenced the old Don Oakie articles, but this provides a good example of the basic theme.

Admittedly, I'm quite sure that Jo Anne - she of the "Practice Goodwill and Active Ethics" signature - was posting in a private capacity and not speaking as District 20 President. Then again, one of the major criticism of the ACBL is their inability to foster clear and unambiguous lines of communication. We don't have the equivalent of the Orange Book or the White Book. Rather, we have a random collection of semi official opinions, most of which don't actually have any legal standing (see previous threads regarding Duplicate Decisions)

My post indicated that I thought this was a terrible psyche - especially for a team event. My error in my post was that I thought the poster made the bid, not his partner. And I think it is important to remember that you have teammates. I would like to know where in my post I showed disapproval of psyches, in general. I have nothing against psyches - except that I do not believe that they should be made by experts against novices.

In fact at JBridge, a smaller bridge site some of you may have heard of, where I am an administrator, they have banned pyschic bids and I am the lone voice on their Forum that disagrees with that decision, and I have been quite vocal about it.

I have some sympathy for the Director in that situation. Diffusing a "situation" that has become angry is not always easy and getting the player away from the table for a few moments was pretty smart. After that both sides needed to put that hand away and get on with the game.

As a further comment to the status of District Presidents. Districts run Regionals and North American events. We run education and I/N programs. We occasionally host NABC's. We provide support to the Units, when asked, and we print a District publication. The President presides over a board that adminsters those activities. We do set our Regional entry fees, and do have some influence as to the game scheduling within a Regional but actually leave most of that to the experienced Tournament Manager and DIC. We do not micro-manage.

The District Director from each District sits on the ACBL Board of Directors. That is the person who votes on rule changes, fees, etc, and makes ACBL descisions.

[xcurt]

Lots going on here, but I want to add that there's an element of poor sportsmanship in psyching once you're definitely out of the event. And who knows, in an A/X Swiss the psycher might have had a randomizing impact on the X winner or some such. So I have a little sympathy for the opponents frustration -- although none for their behavior.

[jdonn]

xcurt, on Aug 18 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

Lots going on here, but I want to add that there's an element of poor sportsmanship in psyching once you're definitely out of the event.

??????? Is there an element of bad sportsmanship in finessing when you are out of the event too?

[xcurt]

jdonn, on Aug 18 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

xcurt, on Aug 18 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

Lots going on here, but I want to add that there's an element of poor sportsmanship in psyching once you're definitely out of the event.

??????? Is there an element of bad sportsmanship in finessing when you are out of the event too?

Yes you have to play for the drop only.

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Aug 18 2008, 06:12 PM, said:

xcurt, on Aug 18 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

Lots going on here, but I want to add that there's an element of poor sportsmanship in psyching once you're definitely out of the event.

??????? Is there an element of bad sportsmanship in finessing when you are out of the event too?

The element of bad sportsmanship is if you do anything wild or obviously stupid once you are out of the event, and your opponents are still in contention. Opening 7NT on a balanced 7-count and redoubling because you are now bored will garner you a PP (e.g. because you aren't paying insufficient attention to the game).

The same applies to all bidding & play, not just psyching. Obviously there's a bit of a fuzzy line because it's hard to give a hand your full attention when you know it makes no difference to your final result, but randomly going on tilt is grossly unfair to the rest of the field.

There's nothing wrong with a psyche that you genuinely believe is the correct action on the hand.

[peachy]

If you expect to beat this team, why psych.
If you are psyching, at least psych in a suit you _don't_ have four cards in

[xcurt]

FrancesHinden, on Aug 18 2008, 12:22 PM, said:

randomly going on tilt is grossly unfair to the rest of the field.

Thanks Frances for a more reasoned reply. "Randomly going on tilt" is a pretty good description of this psyche.

Also, keep in mind that a sectional typically doesn't have the menu of events that a regional does and so the Sunday Swiss is going to have some LOLs playing for enjoyment and social aspects as well as for blood.

By the way I'm not anti-psyche or anything*, I just think that it's just not right in the situation described by the OP.

* A little history. In the 1997 Las Vegas regional I psyched Ogust and went -250 against the field's +1430. Yeah both strong notrumps forgot to double. That led to a director telling me I was a "cheater." This led to several very good players going off on the directorial staff. In the end I got a letter of apology from Gary Blaiss out of it...

[JoAnneM]

Wisdom usually comes with maturity.

[Lobowolf]

CSGibson, on Aug 18 2008, 12:58 AM, said:

I'm still steamed about this (despite the fact that it worked out for us on that board). Bidding after goes (X)-XX-(2♣), P-(P)-2♠-All pass, so my partner actually got off lucky for a 5 imp gain on the board

How did Roger know it was worth exactly 5 IMPs?!

[Lobowolf]

From a partnership harmony perspective, it's a pretty good idea to discuss your general thoughts on psyching at the outset, come to a mutually acceptable compromise if they don't coincide, and act accordingly.

From a partnership harmony AND a results perspective, it's a really good idea to completely forget about previous boards (unless you rationally think you need to make a state-of-the-match decision) until the sesion is over.

I think that at the given conditions, it's somewhere between bad and disgusting; however, I disagree with the notion that it only works if partner has less than an opening hand. Partner is allowed to field the psyche if your subsequent bidding reveals it. If the auction goes:

1♠ - (P) - 2♣ - P
P - (2♥), certainly no director will force partner to bid to game.

Secondly, even if you're in game, there's no guarantee that you'll get a bad board, particularly if the opposing strength is split (so you're undoubled against their making game).

Having said that...it's pretty bad.