[matmat]

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 02:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners. However I agree it that should be the moderators who are the arbiters of good taste. They appear to have let standards lapse considerably of late.

Really?

it offends me whenever anyone mentions "clubs" on the forums. i think it is inappropriate to talk about weapons here.

I see absolutely no reason to stop using cursewords simply because it wilts somebody else's ears/eyes. that is their problem, not mine, they can choose to ignore my posts if they are so inclined.

I have very little respect for people whose social norms are based on something they have just heard/read somewhere and ones that they have not thought about. And, how is it in good taste to tell others what they should or should not do? what, exactly, makes you qualified to tell others what proper and improper behavior are?

[the hog]

Mat it appears you are illiterate and ignorant as well as rude. If you reread my post you will see that 1) I have used the phrase "terms such as this". This means terms that have the ability to cause offence to many. Don't attempt to be precious with your example about "clubs".
2) I stated that it should be the moderators who should be the arbiters.

Further your insistence that the problem is anothers and not your own is selfish and misguided. You live in a community with others and therefore have some responsibility to respect their wishes. For example , how would you feel if I blew smoke all over you at the dinner table. Before you lable this as an incorrect analogy, I suggest you think it through.

[matmat]

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Mat it appears you are illiterate and ignorant as well as rude.

Thanks. I appreciate your opinion and will file it accordingly.

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If you reread my post you will see that 1) I have used the phrase "terms such as this". This means terms that have the ability to cause offence to many. Don't attempt to be precious with your example about "clubs".

Could you, possibly, be any more condescending?
The only damage done by a curseword is to the reader's/listener's sensibility. It has no impact on their life beyond their reaction of "oh my goodness, he used a curseword, i can't believe he used a curseword. he shouldn't be saying things like this, they're inappropriate!" It is not my problem that someone can't get over a baseless reaction like this.

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2) I stated that it should be the moderators who should be the arbiters.

this just brings back memories of the "do you have the balls?" thread... censorship is a dangerous thing and, IMO, unless a post is directly insulting or threatening should not be applied, and even in those cases judiciously.

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Further your insistence that the problem is anothers and not your own  is selfish and misguided. You live in a community with others and therefore have some responsibility to respect their wishes. For example , how would you feel if I blew smoke all over you at the dinner table. Before you lable this as an incorrect analogy, I suggest you think it through.

well... see... that *is* a totally incorrect analogy. the moment you blow smoke in my face, you are increasing my chance of getting cancer and thus causing me physical harm and shortening my life expectancy. words do not have this effect, unless, possibly, they are used as a form of torture, which, curses, in an open forum do not. so please, kindly, go stick your cigarette up your @$$.

[the hog]

Ah, after reading your last post I now understand. You are all of 15 years old, correct? You have a lot of growing up to do sonny Jim.

[matmat]

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 03:22 AM, said:

Ah, after reading your last post I now understand. You are all of 15 years old, correct? You have a lot of growing up to do sonny Jim.

it certainly does seem that your responses are much more mature than mine.

[gnasher]

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2008, 08:26 AM, said:

When someone asks you to stop using terms like this in an open forum to continue to do is just bad manners.

I can't see how anyone could disagree this. The essence of good manners is to avoid giving unnecessary offence.

matmat, on Jun 30 2008, 08:45 AM, said:

I see absolutely no reason to stop using cursewords simply because it wilts somebody else's ears/eyes. that is their problem, not mine, they can choose to ignore my posts if they are so inclined.

That's just another way of saying that you reserve the right to be bad-mannered.

[Codo]

Mat,

I do not agree with Rons last postings and with the words he choose in his first. But I think in his bottom line he is right:

It is in the responsibility of the writer/speaker to stop using words which are offensive to others.

So if someone has good manners, he will use this wtf while talking to you, Justin and millions of others who don`t care about it but won`t use it in an open bridge forum where are people of all ages.

And it is a simple truth that wording used by seniors may be lame, boring to the youth and words used from the teens are sometimes offensive for the ears of the "best-agers".

So it`s your choice to use a language which fits you well or a language which won`t offend anybody.
The latter way is called "good manners".

I am not the judge which way is the better one:
To have people talk the way they want is a great thing and leads to many nice posts.
To be respectful and have good manners is nice in itself, but sometimes boring.

My personal view is that I really don`t care about wtf, but it makes post not better if someone uses this expression. Actually I found it more funny to write "Do you have balls...". But anybody to his own.

[david_c]

Just saw this which I thought was amusing:

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Pupil gains marks for exam expletive

LONDON (Reuters) - A student who scribbled an expletive on an English language exam paper was awarded 7.5 percent for accurate spelling and effective communication, The Times newspaper reported on Monday.

The pupil, who wrote "f--- off" after being asked in an English exam to "describe the room you are sitting in", got 2 marks out of 27 and would have got more if he had added some punctuation, chief examiner Peter Buckroyd told The Times.

[helene_t]

Recently someone made a comment about "the way LOLs declare". That was an explicit offense of people of a particular sex, age and body size.

Not that I have problems with it, but it must surely be much worse than the use of a word which maybe originally was designed to insult but probably wasn't used with that intention in context. Or maybe "LOL" just means "bad bridge player" and has nothing to do with its literal meaning .....

I never understood these apparently strong emotions it elicits when someone makes a reference to human reproductive behavior and reproductive body parts. Like I don't understand people who find it ok that their children watch violence but not ok that they watch reproductive body parts.

OK it's just me, I know it's futile to argue that my taste is more "right" than that of any other person. Then again, if someone else assumes that his/her taste is the universal one I am not going to take it seriously either.

[rona_]

jillybean2, on Jun 30 2008, 12:30 AM, said:

Here we go again
Each time I view forums lately, there is one post that stands out – What The Fuck partner

I was under the impression the WC was there for this type of language.  Obviously not, the moderators and site owners allow it and I’m in the tiny minority who object to it. How far can we go now?

If you object to it then why not use the abbreviated form and post it in the WC.
I have not seen it spelled out this way in forums, except in your post. Generally people write wtf, and somehow that doesn't seem offensive.

Agree with Helene's post.

[helene_t]

Elianna, on Jun 30 2008, 03:06 AM, said:

wonder what a future generation will do when they can't shock their parents by their language.

They will find some other way of shocking. Some of my classmates (30 years back) called each other "homosexuals", "negroids" or "left-handers" (or equivalent slang terms) instead of "idiots", especially in the presence of teachers known to be politically correct.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Jun 30 2008, 12:43 PM, said:

Yes, but at what cost? There must be some ratio where the utility of what you're giving up (wtf) to the amount of offence caused to the amount of people means you have to offend some people. This happens all the time, and often the people offended need to take ownership of it because it's their problem. I'm not trying to say that is the case with "wtf" but certainly if someone were to say they were offended by the suit hearts because their parents died of heart disease, or if someone were to say "don't use he as a generic, use he/she, because it is sexist and offends me" then people should not give up "hearts" or a generic he.

Yes, I agree that good manners aren't absolute, and that one has to consider both the demands of efficient communication and how reasonable it is to be offended.

Personally, I don't find it hard to write "South's bidding was ridiculous" rather than "WTF ?", but I would find it hard to rephrase the sentence "East should have played a heart when he was in, and has only himself to blame." However, I realise that I'm just drawing a line somewhere different from where others draw it.

[bill1157]

whats the BFD anyway?

[655321]

bill1157, on Jun 30 2008, 09:55 AM, said:

whats the BFD anyway?

BFD

[TimG]

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And I always used to hear that only people who have poor vocabularies use these words, but that is silly to me. For starters, if no one were to be offended by these words that would give everyone a stronger vocabulary because we have more possible words to use, so we can better communicate our feelings and thoughts in a more concise manner.

If spoken word for word, I would expect "wtf" to be a reaction to something injurious or causing affront. As in: "What the f*** did you do that for, a******?" "wtf" can also be an expression of confusion or frustration. As in: "what the f*** is going on here, it should be easy, but I just can't solve this puzzle." I'm sure there are shades of meaning in between -- shades that would be easier to understand in spoken form rather than written form.

When I read the thread title "WTF partner", it sounded to me like partner had done something wrong and the poster was upset. Upon reading the post (which I did not do until this thread was started) I think the poster simply was expressing confusion at the situation and not directing anything at partner.

In short, I don't think the use of "wtf" in this case was particularly helpful in expressing the poster's thoughts. I don't really know whether the poster meant a mild "I wasn't sure what this meant" or intended some ill-will towards partner "a good partner shouldn't put me in this position".

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And secondly, since 90+ % of North Americans swear I think the point that people who do so have poor vocabularies can no longer be argued.

Can't 90+% of North Americans have a poor vocabulary? I suspect strongly that 90+% swearing is an overbid and that a significant portion of those that do swear limit the company in which they do swear. I think that those who swear are often not making best use of their vocabulary. I neither swear nor possess a good vocabulary, which leaves me severely limited; it would be a shock if anyone understood what I am talking about.

Back to the original use of "wtf". Some of us have heard a milder form of this expression: "what the freak". Just as there are miler forms of "f***ing" ("friggin", "freaking", or "frickin") and other swear words. I wonder whether Jilly would have been offended if the poster had written out "what the freak" or if someone used "frickin" in a post? If not, just imagine that "wtf" always means "what the freak".

[jillybean]

I do not understand why those who say this sort of language does not bother them but find reading WTF more acceptable than ‘what the *****’. I assume when you talk you don’t say W-T-F. Lets not fool ourselves, WTF is What The *****.

Yes WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! has impact and so for impact it would be ok for me to use “What sort of pr*ck would bid like this!!!!” or “What a **t of a hand!!!!”
My vocabulary is limited but I think I can still find interesting ways to deliver a message without using this type of language. I may have impact but I will also create negative impact and offend people. Isn’t this also why we don’t use references to race, religion or sexual preferences?

Yes I teach my daughter not to steal, kill, cheat or swear. She is a Cub in the local Scout group. In our unit Beavers (5-7) don’t swear at all, Cubs (8-10) occasionally use inappropriate language and are corrected by the leaders. I have heard a Scout (11-14) swear on a couple of occasions and surprise, its not the leaders who have corrected them but the other scouts. It’s only too late to stop if we let it.

I talk openly about human reproduction and body parts, I teach my daughter the grammatically correct verbs and nouns as well as the slang. I also tell her that some things are best kept private and that it is not appropriate to use these slang words.

Maybe it is just a phase most pass through. I found it a lot more acceptable when I was in my crazy 20’s but even then I would not have heard it outside of our small group and never in the presence of parents, bosses etc.
For me vulgarities are a little like sex, best kept private.

[TimG]

jillybean2, on Jun 30 2008, 10:40 AM, said:

Beavers

When last in Montreal, I thought the Beaver Club was a strip joint...