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What does this auction mean?

#21 User is offline   OleBerg 

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Posted 2008-May-17, 13:06

Jlall, on May 17 2008, 04:13 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on May 17 2008, 03:52 AM, said:

Jlall, on May 17 2008, 02:48 AM, said:

Sorry but what does cooperative mean?

"cooperative" is another word for "optional",
"cardshowing", "no clear direction", "partner
do something intelligent", "blametransfer".

With kind regards
Marlowe

So how many diamonds does it show? 1? 2? 3? 4?

Depends on how fast you double.

Best Regards

Ole Berg
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Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. Or the ninth trumph.

Best Regards Ole Berg

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We should always assume 2/1 unless otherwise stated, because:

- If the original poster didn't bother to state his system, that means that he thinks it's obvious what he's playing. The only people who think this are 2/1 players.

Gnasher
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#22 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-May-17, 16:23

I'm not sure what this means. But, at the table, I would mean this as "I want to bid 3♠, but I'm not going unilateral."

In other words, a sixth spade but some defense. Diamond contribution? Not a stiff.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#23 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-May-17, 16:58

At imps I play this as penalties, usually 4 diamonds but sometimes a good three card holding.

At mps this is more "cooperative" i.e. Hx or xxx or Hxx in diamonds, and our side has the majority of the high cards. I don't mind passing out 3D and taking it 1 or 2 off against 2H making at imps but at mps I have to tell opener that it was our hand and it's more likely I have general values than a 'large penalty' penalty.
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#24 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-May-17, 17:13

All too complicated.


3d is penalty.........opener did not super accept.

I do not think responder has 6 good spades and 2 lousy diamonds.


coop, max...opt.......etc etc.......who knows...I pass as opener.
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#25 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2008-May-17, 23:29

At MPs, this is a hand that expected a plus from 2♠ and expects further action to be better than selling to 3♦. Opener sits with 2 spades and pulls with 4 spades. With 3 spades use judgment.

At IMPs I'd say this double needs to be for hands where there could be a large swing, so it makes sense to either play it as pure penalty (7 count with 3-4 good diamonds) or a hand with a singleton diamond that could still bid a perfecta game or be a double partscore swing.
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#26 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-May-18, 00:05

I don't understand all the cooperative doubles. So some suggest a double with 5 spades and 3 diamonds and a balanced hand, but with that shape, isn't it always better to defend rather than bid on? So your cooperative double only turns out well when partner passes?
I really think that at IMPs, you should pick either penalty or takeout as agreement for this double. I admit it is not clear which is better, but this doesn't mean we shouldn't pick and let it be a vague "well i don't quite have an invite and don't really want to compete nor can I really double I hope you have a clear opinion partner"-double.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#27 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-May-18, 04:26

It does seem unwise to use a double to say that the opponents' trumps are breaking with an honour onside. For a "cooperative" double, if that's how I played it, I'd rather have cards outside diamonds.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#28 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2008-May-18, 08:13

Anyways I saw a hand where someone didn't X and I was like wow I'd crack that off then I was like hmm maybe it's not penalty and shows like 5314, then I had no clue so I posted it heh.
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#29 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2008-May-18, 08:24

Jlall, on May 18 2008, 09:13 AM, said:

Anyways I saw a hand where someone didn't X and I was like wow I'd crack that off then I was like hmm maybe it's not penalty and shows like 5314, then I had no clue so I posted it heh.

I believe it was a good idea to post this question as it forces us to examine more fully our understandings - it's easy to say cooperative but what does that really mean?

Better to have a bad understanding than no understanding.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#30 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-May-18, 21:20

Agree with Arend, either TO or penalty. For us it would be TO.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#31 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-May-19, 00:18

We play a lot of optionnal double and we are tired of explaining what they mean. We now say "semi-penality" and curiously people accept that and dont ask questions.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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