[han]

han, on May 6 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

If your opponents never open 3H white against red on x QJ10xxx Kxxx xx or xx KQJ10xx xxx xx then you shouldn't include those hands.

I assume this is what you were referring to when you wrote:

awm said:

Of course there do exist 3♥ openings on six cards; my suspicion was that these would involve a good suit and some shape (and I'd be happy to do the sim) but others have shouted me down and insisted that KQJTxx and 6322 is a 3♥ bid.

If so then I think this is very unfair of you.

[han]

awm said:

Another (Matt) is suggesting that passing 4♣ with a 5161 six-count is reasonable, at the same time that another (Han) is suggesting that we should raise 4♣ to 5♣ on what's effectively a balanced five-count.

The hand you are talking about is 9xxx Kx xxx KQxx? If you discount the club queen too then it is effectively a 3-count!

More seriously, I agree that the heart king is likely wasted but that's not certain. Sometimes partner does have the ace or the queen you know. And if my partner overcalls 4C red against white missing the KQ of clubs then I'd expect a pretty good hand. Give partner a 6-4 or 7-3 and I need far less than a 10-trick hand for game.

Maybe I'm wrong and raising to 5C is way off, I would be interested if others would pass.

I think I was quite honest in my evaluation of the hands. Heck I even pointed out a hand where I disagreed with you in favor of your 4C. Maybe I made some mistakes but I wasn't purposely analyzing in a skewed like you say you were.

[cherdano]

awm, on May 6 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

I'll point out that:

(1) Yes, I disregarded hands where partner balances. The issue is that on these hands you will often have a complicated auction regardless of whether you start the bidding with pass or 4♣. For example, what do you bid if partner balances 3♠? Mightn't it depend on whether 4♣ now would be fit-showing, whether it would be forcing, how light partner tends to balance here, what a cuebid means, etc? If you bid 4♣ and partner has a really good hand, how much does he push for slam? Does he always raise you to slam on Hx with a good hand? Do you play transfer advances here? Would 4♦ over 4♣ be forcing? Is 4NT to play or keycard? On many of the hands where partner balances you are actually close to the slam range...

Why does this remind me of the joke about the drunk and the streetlight?

[han]

The one with the dog in it?

[cherdano]

han, on May 6 2008, 11:19 PM, said:

The one with the dog in it?

In case others don't know the joke either:

Quote

Late at night, a drunk was on his knees beneath a street-light, evidently looking for something. A passer-by, being a good Samaritan, offered to help. "What is it you have lost?" he asked.
"My watch," replied the drunk. "It fell off when I tripped over the pavement."
The passer-by joined in the search but after a quarter of an hour, there was still no sign of the watch. "Where exactly did you trip?" asked the passer-by.
"About half a block up the street," replied the drunk.
"Then why are you looking for your watch here if you lost it half a block up the street?"
The drunk said: "Because the light's a lot better here."

(Quoted from http://www.testriffi...iferRLake/30037 .)

[benlessard]

I dont really think 3Nt & 4C are serious options. Over a 3S preempt 3nt without a stop is possible but over 3H i rarely like it.