[hrothgar]

Interesting article which raises a number of points:
http://www.ibpa.com/511bc.pdf

1. Difficult to understand the comments about "unacceptable" behaviour by the Juniors. Personally, I couldn't care less if USA1 wants to spend all night snorting lines and partying with whores. If a captain thinks that someone's bridge is suffering, bench the player. If they really screw up, kick them off the team. If they're breaking the law, call in the cops.

I believe that most of the Juniors are above 18. Treat them like adults and don't confuse your own personal morals with a sporting event.

2. Panos Gerontopoulos got the boot? Seems more than reasonable to me...
My impression from back in Sydney was that he was a very expensive waste of skin.

[cherdano]

hrothgar, on Sep 17 2007, 01:53 PM, said:

1. Difficult to understand the comments about "unacceptable" behaviour by the Juniors. Personally, I couldn't care less if USA1 wants to spend all night snorting lines and partying with whores. If a captain thinks that someone's bridge is suffering, bench the player. If they really screw up, kick them off the team. If they're breaking the law, call in the cops.

This viewpoint might be difficult to communicate to the authorities in morally very conservative countries like Iran, Saudi-Arabia or USA...

[mike777]

Article on bridge in the current issue of The New Yorker, September 17, issue.
This is a mainstream USA literary magazine.

Typical article, bridge players are old and bridge used to be played by everyone.

[awm]

When you're on company time, there's an obligation to keep in mind that you're representing your company, not just yourself and to be on your best behavior.

Here, the USBF has spent a lot of money to send this team overseas to represent the United States (and the USBF/ACBL) internationally. Their behavior reflects on the organization that has selected them and funded their travels, as well as upon the country in whose name they play. I think it's reasonable to expect that these individuals will take the privilege of representing their country seriously, strive to perform as well as they can, and avoid behavior which is immoral (or at the very least behavior which is illegal by the laws of the home country).

I'm sure most companies would object if their employees were "snorting coke and soliciting prostitutes" on company time (I have no evidence that this actually happened, I'm just taking the examples from hrothgar's post). Many professional sports teams have penalties for off the field behavior which reflects poorly on the team and/or league (for example criminal convictions and even racist comments often provoke suspensions or fines from the league).

[hrothgar]

awm, on Sep 17 2007, 11:34 PM, said:

I'm sure most companies would object if their employees were "snorting coke and soliciting prostitutes" on company time (I have no evidence that this actually happened, I'm just taking the examples from hrothgar's post). Many professional sports teams have penalties for off the field behavior which reflects poorly on the team and/or league (for example criminal convictions and even racist comments often provoke suspensions or fines from the league).

The supposed penalties that sports teams hand out for ethical misconducts also strike me as idiotic. I don't think many people would claim that Ty Cobb was all sweetness and light, but damn the man could hit... I don't think that conflating physcial prowess with ethical role model serves anyone in good stead.

To use a more recent example, I think that the Falcons should go after Michael Vick because he won't be able to play ball while he is rotting in jail. I would prefer if they never built an ethics clause into his contract.

Moreover, according to the stories that I've heard, back in their heyday the ACBL Nationals were quite the meat market. (They might still be, but lords knows that isn't something that I want to picture). I know for a fact that I have played against any number of pairs who were bombed off their ass and I'm not just talking about Midnight KOs... (Charlie Coons breath could knock a guy down at 1o paces and he could still play the spots off the cards)

Seems ridiculous to condemn the Juniors for engaging in the same activities as the "adults"...

[cherdano]

What do you mean by company time awm? If someone is on a business trip and working from 8am to 8 pm, then during that time of course should behave in a respectable manner, but who would care what he does after 8pm?

[hrothgar]

awm, on Sep 17 2007, 11:34 PM, said:

I'm sure most companies would object if their employees were "snorting coke and soliciting prostitutes" on company time (I have no evidence that this actually happened, I'm just taking the examples from hrothgar's post).

I didn't see any discussion of "company time" in the article.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that anyone was turning tricks between tricks or knocking down cold brewskis every time they took the last trick with the seven of Diamonds...

[hrothgar]

Jlall, on Sep 18 2007, 12:06 AM, said:

Can someone copy/paste this and PM it to me? My computer cannot read pdf files right now (don't ask lol), and i get the feeling I want to read this one

Editorial
The opinions expressed here are solely those of the Editor and do not
necessarily represent the opinions of the IBPA Executive or its membership.
Junior Bridge is under siege. Here are some of the firebombs lobbed at it by the
trebuchet:
a. The ACBL has cancelled the Junior Camp and World Individual Championship
which it was scheduled to host this summer.
b. The WBF is considering holding the World Youth Team Championships only
every four years, down from the current every-other-year scenario. Additionally,
there seems to be some sentiment for eliminating the Pairs.
c. Despite there being a World Youth Teams scheduled for 2008, no country has
yet come forward to host it.
d. The USA, Canada and Israel (there may be others) have all experienced
what the authorities consider to be unacceptable behaviour from some of
their juniors, causing them to, respectively, reconsider their support of Junior
Bridge, deny some members ratification to play, and refuse to send a team to
the European Junior Team Championship at all.
e. The EBL has removed Panos Gerontopoulos as its Youth Committee Chairman
and member of the EBL Executive. This effectively means he no longer serves
the WBF in the same capacities.
There are many positives, however. The recent European Youth Championships
in Jesolo, Italy were a resounding success, with more total teams entered than
ever before. The PABF and South American Zones also had successful Zonal
Championships recently. Youth bridge is booming in some countries, notably
Poland, Indonesia and the Netherlands, while Italy, France, Sweden, England
and Norway, among others, have future stars in their ranks. Some countries,
notably Italy, the Netherlands and Brazil seem able to step in at short notice to
host World and European Championships.
Let’s look at the aforementioned difficulties in order.
a. The ACBL Board of Directors seems to be taking the view that they are spending
a lot of money on Junior Bridge, and that the benefits are only realized by a few
elite players. The occasional behaviour of a very small number of these has
been questionable – alcohol abuse, drugs, and escort services are some of the
charges levelled. While some steps may need to be taken to correct the behaviour
of those few (even that is moot), it seems irrational to punish a whole programme
for their individual behaviour. The future of bridge lies in bringing more young
people into the game, not driving them away by diminishing their opportunities.
b. Our view is that there should be a World Youth Championship every year, not
once every four. Year 1: Teams; Year 2: Pairs; Year 3: Teams; Year 4: Individual.
If this must be done on a smaller scale than currently, so be it. However, one is
only a junior for so long – for most players, they would not become accomplished
enough to represent their country until they were in their twenties, at which time
they might have only one or two chances at it before becoming too old.

[hrothgar]

Jlall, on Sep 18 2007, 12:18 AM, said:

lol, thanks Richard, so much I would love to say but it is not in my best interest or the best interest of junior bridge so I won't (and yes it is really sickening to me to try and use political tact).

Damn...

I do love dirt

[han]

cherdano, on Sep 17 2007, 03:53 PM, said:

What do you mean by company time awm? If someone is on a business trip and working from 8am to 8 pm, then during that time of course should behave in a respectable manner, but who would care what he does after 8pm?

Although I don't care at all about this representing their country in a respectable manner, I do think that the coach (or sponsoring organization) should care what the players do after game time. If they do use heavy drugs then this will likely have a negative effect on their play the next day. I can't imagine that the coach cares about their sex life as long as they get enough sleep to play their best the next day.

So yes, I think that the "company" should expect the players to take the event seriously, also after gametime. But given that the US won the world championships twice in a row I can't imagine that they didn't.

As for the Canucks, my impression is that there is much more to the story. I don't know anything about the Israelian juniors.

[awm]

Generally speaking, behavior on business trips is under the same codes of ethical conduct as behavior at work... at least according to most companies' codes of ethics.

There's also a distinction between activities which are legal but immoral versus activities which are actually illegal. Certain drugs and soliciting prostitutes are against US law. Funding overseas travel for the purpose of partaking in these activities is of questionable legality, and certainly reflects poorly on the company or organization providing such funding. Even if legal consequences are unlikely, I think many individuals would be unwilling to donate time and money to an organization which supports such activities.

ACBL/USBF definitely has reasonable concerns; I think the article tends to trivialize them in it's editorial response. Keep in mind that currently the USA1 team is not selected via an open selection process, instead being comprised of whoever remains eligible from the last USA1 team plus whoever they select to augment the team. This emphasizes a combination of skill level and being part of the "junior crowd" in order to get selected. The people on this team are very frequently full time professional bridge players, and also very frequently the children of very serious bridge players. It becomes difficult to argue that continuing the provide money to these individuals actually furthers the cause of "getting more young people involved in bridge" unless the team members are acting as role models and mentors for other young players. If, instead, they are taking advantage of the USBF's investment of time and money to engage in questionable activities (leading to articles about how the junior team partied overseas, and thereby discouraging parents from even allowing their kids to participate in junior bridge activities) this certainly doesn't help the cause of getting more young players involved.

I agree that the older bridge players are often very bad examples, and in particular several of the "coaches" providing adult supervision at the junior camps are known to spend their time encouraging under-age players to get drunk and hitting on young female players a quarter of their age. Certainly this is potentially an even more serious problem than "kids being kids" although I am not sure I would categorize some of the (alleged) activities going on as "just kids being kids."

[han]

awm, on Sep 17 2007, 05:25 PM, said:

Funding overseas travel for the purpose of partaking in these activities is of questionable legality....

For the purpose?????

[ralph23]

Hannie, on Sep 17 2007, 06:32 PM, said:

awm, on Sep 17 2007, 05:25 PM, said:

Funding overseas travel for the purpose of partaking in these activities is of questionable legality....

For the purpose?????

Bridge is apparently a lot more fun now than when I was a teenager. But maybe most things are.

[david_c]

Richard only quoted the first page of the editorial. It goes on:

c. Many countries feel that the conditions imposed by
the WBF for hosting a World Championship are too
onerous, which is perhaps why no suitable candidate
has stepped forward for next year’s World Youth Teams.
Our view is that the WBF must try to make it more
financially viable for countries outside Europe and North
America to host such events. So far, we have had one
each in Indonesia, Brazil, Australia and Thailand, and
the other seven in Europe and North America. Japan,
China, South Africa, Egypt, Argentina and Chile are all
potential hosts with active bridge communities.

d. As for individual behaviour, it is one’s demeanour at
the table and behaviour toward partner, opponents, NPC
and teammates which is important, not a few youthful
highjinks. We seniors sometimes forget how we acted
in our youth. Besides, what one does in the privacy of
one’s own home (or hotel room, by extension) is no one
else’s business, as long as it does not adversely affect
others, or the player’s performance at the table.

e. The EBL and WBF must step in quickly to find a
replacement for Panos Gerontopoulos. Gianarrigo Rona
(Italy), Andrea Pagani (Italy) and Stefan Back (Germany)
are the most-often mentioned possibilities. It does seem
that the Chairman of the WBF Youth Committee must
come from Europe, at least until the other Zones catch
up to Europe in Junior Bridge activity, numbers and
sophistication.

One further point: a successful youth programme must
have both a grass-roots component (of which the Junior
Camps are a part) and an elite component. We must
bring large numbers of young people into the game,
while at the same time providing competition for the most
talented of these. If we do not, bridge will die out
everywhere but Poland, the Netherlands and Indonesia.

[han]

Thanks for posting David, I completely agree with d.