[jtfanclub]

♠A76
♥AKQ8
♦K
♣KJ973

If you open 1 club, your partner bids 1♠

[the hog]

If I open 1C and my pd bid 1S I would bid 2H. Is this a problem? I predict this will be unanimous. Now over 2S I bid 4D. If pd bids 2NT - then it depends on agreements. Some, me included, play 2NT by responder here as a blackout.

Actually my opening bid would have been 2NT.

[MomoTheDog]

It's a clear 2h. You must definitely indicate you have 4 hearts.

This is a reverse (i think), and shows greater values. When partner responds over your reverse, you have the option to show your 3-card spade support by bidding them (eg. 1c-1s-2h-3d(4sf)-3s.

[Codo]

This is a clear 1 Club opener to me and an easy 2 HEart later.
What is nect depends on the apporach you use for the following bidding sequence.
If you use some kind of lebensohl and pd is weak the bidding would start with:

1 ♣ 1 ♠
2 ♥ 2 NT
3 ♠

And I had shown my shape and extra strength.
But2 HEart is really a no brainer.

[skjaeran]

This is a clear 1♣ opening to me. Over 1♠ I reverse with 2♥, planning to support spades later.

Normally I use T-Walsh, so partner's response would be 1♥ and my rebid 1♠, showing 3-card support, planning to reverse in ♥'s next round. This might be thwarted if partner makes a GF with 2♦ or higher or some invitational bid, but I'll then have an easy auction toward slam.

[Hanoi5]

I also agree with the 2♥ reverse rebid. Now what?

[jtfanclub]

Hanoi5, on Nov 30 2007, 04:20 AM, said:

I also agree with the 2♥ reverse rebid. Now what?

Now things get interesting....

I'm the partner. I had:

♠KQT6
♥J76
♦9654
♣82

Spots may be wrong.

Can you hit the brakes hard enough? Or is this a guaranteed nightmare?

Our actual auction:

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 3♥
3♠ 3NT
4♣ P

Partner correctly interpreted 3♥ followed by 3NT as denying a diamond stop (with 3 hearts and a diamond stop I bid NT directly over 2♥). I still don't know if 3♠ was forcing (I certainly took it that way).

[whereagles]

wtp? just bid 2NT over 2♥. Now pard can either raise to 3NT and you pass or he can bid 3♠ and you raise that to 4.

[han]

The_Hog, on Nov 29 2007, 11:47 PM, said:

If I open 1C and my pd bid 1S I would bid 2H. Is this a problem?

Agree.

[han]

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 09:54 AM, said:

♠KQT6
♥J76
♦9654
♣82

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 3♥
3♠ 3NT
4♣ P

3♥?? You have only 3 hearts.

I'd suggest 2NT and then pass 3♠.

[jtfanclub]

Hannie, on Nov 30 2007, 10:12 AM, said:

3♥?? You have only 3 hearts.

I guess I thought 2NT would show a diamond stop, as well as wrongsiding the hand if partner bids the expected 3NT.

[mike777]

"Can you hit the brakes hard enough?"

I doubt it.

26HCP...good luck to those that can stay out of game.


1C=1S
2H=2NT(Minimum, denies 5 spades or 4H, forcing one round but does not promise stoppers or a rebid)
3nt? rebid now by strong hand.

[skjaeran]

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 03:54 PM, said:

I'm the partner. I had:

♠KQT6
♥J76
♦9654
♣82

Spots may be wrong.

Can you hit the brakes hard enough? Or is this a guaranteed nightmare?

Our actual auction:

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 3♥
3♠ 3NT
4♣ P

Partner correctly interpreted 3♥ followed by 3NT as denying a diamond stop (with 3 hearts and a diamond stop I bid NT directly over 2♥). I still don't know if 3♠ was forcing (I certainly took it that way).

How could this auction happen?
3♥ would be a 4-card GF raise to me.
Responder should rebid 2NT or 3♣, depending on what bid shows a minimum non-GF hand. That's 3♣ to me.
Opener would then rebid 3♠ and responder raise to 4♠, which looks like a decent game.

[Hanoi5]

Yeah, 4♠ seems a decent game, provided clubs behave (and we find out how they do ). Getting there is hard, after 2♥ most people would bid 2NT which would be raised to 3. Only after 3♣ from responder I believe opener would support spades.

[mikeh]

I think that virtually all good players would expect the 3♥ raise to show 4♥s and, therefore, at least 5♠s. I suspect that the players in question failed, in choosing their calls, to think about what the calls sounded like.... asking 'what can I bid now', rather than 'what would this bid mean?'

Part of the problem also lies, perhaps, in not having a lebensohl-like negative/waiting bid available over the (obvious) reverse.

So I would expect

1♣    1♠
2♥    2N
3♠    4♠


2N ostensibly asks for opener to bid 3♣, and the hand is borderline as to whether opener does so.. in which case the auction probably ends right there. I confess that, with weak clubs, in context, and great spades, I'd probably bid 3♠ at imps, risking what may be a bad game contract in order to avoid playing 3♣ opposite Kxxxx xx xxx Qxx (and, no, I wouldn't bid 2♠ over 2♥ with that...I'd need a better hand)

And 3♠ is forcing where I come from, so North has little choice but to raise.

And I haven't gone down (yet).

[jtfanclub]

mikeh, on Nov 30 2007, 12:21 PM, said:

Part of the problem also lies, perhaps, in not having a lebensohl-like negative/waiting bid available over the (obvious) reverse.

I should have specified that we were the sit-out pair (ie., never played with or against each other before, no long discussion of system, etc.).

If we had simply agreed to play BBO-Advanced, how should the auction have gone? Does it have a default neg/wait here?

P.S. Clubs were AQxx the wrong way, so everything was hopeless. But I'm more worried about the theory.

[han]

I'd bid 2NT hoping that my partner has the same idea of what is standard as I have. I don't think that you can reasonably bid over reverses if you assume that you and your partner won't be on the same wave length anyway.

[Tcyk]

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 01:44 AM, said:

♠A76
♥AKQ8
♦K
♣KJ973

If you open 1 club, your partner bids 1♠

Hands like this make me glad that I play a strong club system, If I weren't, my auction would go 1C-1S, 4S. I have 20 HCP and a ruffing value. Even if partner only has 4 spades, the contract should make. Playing standard, I will almost always raise a major with 3-card support and a singleton or void. The only exception to this is when I know my partner hates to play in a Moysian fit. Often a 4-3 fit is the best place to play a contract and almost as often, my partner will have 5 cards in the major.

[Al_U_Card]

Just a sidebar. Would 3♣ after a 2♥ rebid show extras (and 3+ clubs) or just a weak hand ♣ preference with 4♠, without 4♥ and neither desire nor ability to declare NT?

[mikeh]

Tcyk, on Nov 30 2007, 02:03 PM, said:

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 01:44 AM, said:

♠A76
♥AKQ8
♦K
♣KJ973

If you open 1 club, your partner bids 1♠

Hands like this make me glad that I play a strong club system, If I weren't, my auction would go 1C-1S, 4S. I have 20 HCP and a ruffing value. Even if partner only has 4 spades, the contract should make. Playing standard, I will almost always raise a major with 3-card support and a singleton or void. The only exception to this is when I know my partner hates to play in a Moysian fit. Often a 4-3 fit is the best place to play a contract and almost as often, my partner will have 5 cards in the major.

Sorry, but 1♣ 1♠ 4♠ is just plain silly.

Give partner a hand such as Jxxx Jx Axx AQxx and it wouldn't occur to most to steer out of spades into clubs.... yet 6♣ is laydown on a 3-1 or 2-2 club split while 6♠ is idiotic. You say, well I'll bid 6N.... but playing keycard, in spades you find out you are off a keycard and the spade Queen... are you really going to be able to tell that he has the spade A and not the K?? Not to mention that you can't know that he has chunky hearts or 5 clubs.... yet the auction over 2♥ is actually pretty straightforward: while there are choices to be made and not all auctions inevitably drive to either 6♣ or the less likely 6N, I'd expect most competent pairs to get there..

And there are other hands on which a 4-4 heart fit will play better than a 5-3 spade fit.... when the spades are weak and the club suit can be established for pitches.