[the hog]

Agree with Mike. 3H is a very poor bid - definitely promises 4. 2NT for me as stated above is blackout, followed by 3S forcing and 4S.

[foo]

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 09:54 AM, said:

♠A76 ♥AKQ8 ♦K ♣KJ973

If you open 1 club, your partner bids 1♠...

Hanoi5, on Nov 30 2007, 04:20 AM, said:

...agree with the 2♥ reverse rebid. Now what?

Now things get interesting....

I'm the partner. I had:

♠KQT6 ♥J76 ♦9654 ♣82

Spots may be wrong.

Can you hit the brakes hard enough? Or is this a guaranteed nightmare?

Our actual auction:

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 3♥
3♠ 3NT
4♣ P

Partner correctly interpreted 3♥ followed by 3NT as denying a diamond stop (with 3 hearts and a diamond stop I bid NT directly over 2♥). I still don't know if 3♠ was forcing (I certainly took it that way).

As others have said, a ♥ raise here by responder should show 4+H.

In addition, a raise or a 4th suit here should promise GF values. Opener's minimum is a 5 loser, control rich 17 count (...this is the "strong reverse" style. Some folks, like many Acolytes, play a "medium+ strength reverse" style...).

That means Responder needs 8+ HCP and a known fit or 9+ HCP without a fit to GF after a Reverse. KQTx_Jxx_9xxx_8x is not good enough to GF opposite any syle of reverse.

The traditional "bid of misery" after a reverse is 2N. Or one can use the "catchall" rebid of your suit if you have 5+ cards in it (this last is not defined in strength. That's why it is a catchall and not a misery bid).
If playing a method like Ingberman (spelling?), which I highly recommend once you are ready for it, the "misery bid" becomes the cheapest new =strain=, not neccesarily 2N. We'll ignore the use of advanced artificial methods for now.

The use of the misery bid or the catchall bid is still forcing, but not GF. Opener must bid again, but Responder has now warned Opener that they may very well pass Opener's next bid.

So...
1C-1S;2H-2N;??

Axx_AKQ8_K_KJ9xx
OPENER DOES NOT HAVE A 20 PLAYING POINT HAND.
(Sorry for the all caps, but no one has made this fundamentally important point yet in this thread.)

Given the auction, the DK is very likely waste paper.
Opener should re-evaluate their hand at ~17 playing points. IOW, a minimum reverse.

...and rebid their original 5+ card suit as =their= "misery bid".
In some partnerships, Opener is actually allowed to pass 2N, but that is a minority style.

Regardless, 2N or 3C should be the final contract unless Responder has something extra to add to the auction.

[whereagles]

mikeh, on Nov 30 2007, 05:21 PM, said:

So I would expect

1♣    1♠
2♥    2N
3♠    4♠

And I haven't gone down (yet).

call us back at trick 12

[Codo]

There is no way for me to stay out of game with 20 opposite 6 HCPs.

In my favourite system the bidding had been like mikes:

1 ♣ 1 ♠
2 ♥ 2 NT
3 ♠ 4 ♠

2 NT shows different hand types, but is normally to sign of at the 3. level with a weak hand. With a weak hand (17-19) opener must rebid 3 ♣.

With his strong hand however, opener patterns out and pd now knows that 3 NT is no good bet and tries the 4-3 fit instead. Did not make this time? Bad luck.

[lilboyman]

jtfanclub, on Nov 30 2007, 09:54 AM, said:

Hanoi5, on Nov 30 2007, 04:20 AM, said:

I also agree with the 2♥ reverse rebid. Now what?

Now things get interesting....

I'm the partner. I had:

♠KQT6
♥J76
♦9654
♣82

Spots may be wrong.

Can you hit the brakes hard enough? Or is this a guaranteed nightmare?

Our actual auction:

1♣ 1♠
2♥ 3♥
3♠ 3NT
4♣ P

Partner correctly interpreted 3♥ followed by 3NT as denying a diamond stop (with 3 hearts and a diamond stop I bid NT directly over 2♥). I still don't know if 3♠ was forcing (I certainly took it that way).

I am just an intermediate player so take this for what its worth. Upon hearing 3 Spades, I am thinking partner is singleton or void in Diamonds and by taking a preference for my Spades pis denying 5 Hearts. With my 6 point 9 loser hand, I don't want to play 3NT with no stopper and would strongly consider a pass of 3 Spades but if I need a game to win I'd bid 4 Spades.

[foo]

Codo, on Dec 3 2007, 05:27 AM, said:

There is no way for me to stay out of game with 20 opposite 6 HCPs.

The important point here is that after 1C-1S;2H-2N , We don't have 20 opposite 6 working HCP.

♠A76 ♥AKQ8 ♦K ♣KJ973

Responder is showing 7- HCP and has not shown any reason for you to think your DK is working. You essentially have 17 working HCP, not 20.

[jdonn]

foo, on Dec 3 2007, 11:28 PM, said:

Codo, on Dec 3 2007, 05:27 AM, said:

There is no way for me to stay out of game with 20 opposite 6 HCPs.

The important point here is that after 1C-1S;2H-2N , We don't have 20 opposite 6 working HCP.

♠A76 ♥AKQ8 ♦K ♣KJ973

Responder is showing 7- HCP and has not shown any reason for you to think your DK is working. You essentially have 17 working HCP, not 20.

Maybe 3 is optimistic, but isn't 0 very pessimistic? There is no reason to assume it's completely useless either.