[geller]

Quote

What does this site have to do with soccer?

Nothing. But I believe the number of countries recognized by FIFA is much greater than the WBF, and even somewhat greater than the IOC (too lazy to check this) so it's a way to include small countries that would otherwise have to be omitted.

[mike777]

lol lol


Fifa
ioc
wbf



if you can find 10% of americans who can tell you what the above means.....
you win.

if you find 5%....you are ahead

If you find 1% I am shocked.


I repeat ....walk down any american street and ask what the above 3 means in full.

If you find 1% of americans......you win bet

I say that because I cannot tell you .........

[mrdct]

Outside America everyone knows what FIFA is.

There is some merit in following the lead from the world's most important sporting organisation.

[geller]

Quote

if you can find 10% of americans who can tell you what the above means.....
you win.

if you find 5%....you are ahead

If you find 1% I am shocked.


I repeat ....walk down any american street and ask what the above 3 means in full.

If you find 1% of americans......you win bet

I say that because I cannot tell you .........

I'm sorry, I must be missing something. I'm an American citizen myself, but I don't see why the % of ordinary Americans who know what Fifa or IOC or WBF mean has to do with this. In the first place BBO is a completely international site, and in the second place I'm sure the American users of BBO (especially BBO Forum) are much more sophisticated than the average American.

-Bob

[fred]

1eyedjack, on Oct 12 2007, 07:06 AM, said:

I understand Fred's momentary loss of patience in an issue that he sees as a no-win situation that uses up his time and gets him nothing but blame.  Personally I did not se mrdct's post as anything more than an observation, but perhaps there is history there as well

It is nice that at least one poster has stopped to consider what this has been like from my point of view, but I am afraid you don't know the half of it.

I have now received well over 100 e-mails on this subject from bridge players in Taiwan. While most of these have been copies of the same 2 or 3 "form letters", several have also been personal in nature (some from complete strangers and some from people I have known for many years).

The sentiments expressed by these e-mails have ranged from devestation through bewilderment, disappointment, disgust, anger and complete contempt for me, my family, BBO, the CCBA, China, and my adopted country (the USA). So far nobody has pulled a South Park by blaming my native country (Canada).

Some of these e-mails have trumpeted concepts that I personally believe in (freedom and democracy for example). Some have said things like "you were my hero for standing up to China for so many years" (not correct - this was never about standing up to anyone) "but now you have proven that all you care about it money and politics" (not correct).

Not correct on all accounts, but still painful and difficult to deal with.

I could just delete these e-mails, but perhaps foolishly I feel like I owe a response to these people that I have hurt. This has consumed a lot of hours and a lot of emotional energy.

Perhaps it would be an exaggeration to think that I have started an international incident when all I was trying to do was make a nice bridge program, make bridge players happy, and create/follow what I thought were the fairest possible rules. But from my point of view this feels like World War III.

Perhaps I deserve World War III since it was me who:

1) Included the Taiwan flag in the first place (not as a political statement)
2) Later established the rules that now exist (not as a politcal statement)
3) Recently replaced Taiwan with Chinese Taipei in accordance with these rules (only after sustained protests from my friends in the CCBA with support from my friends in the WBF and not as a political statement)

I can blame nobody except myself. But whether or not I deserve what I am getting, it would be good if some of the people who are posting in this thread gave some thought to these matters and stopped making posts that amount to fanning the flames that I am trying to put out. I am sure most of you are trying to be constructive, but you are making the situation worse.

Even if the rules could be improved, do you really think it would be smart for me to change them now? Hello? That would be crazy.

Include FIFA in our rules? Time for some coffee.

Do you really think it is a good idea to publicly discuss which other flags should technically be removed in accordance with the rules? Isn't one international incident per week enough for you?

As for Mrdct and his question. That question was either stupid or intentionally provocative. Yes there is a history here - Mrdct has a history of being smart and he also has a history of making posts that, intentionally or not, are not what I would call "sensitive to the feelings of other people".

I suspect that a smart guy like Mrdct could have figured out the answer to this question in about 30 seconds if he had thought about it. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he was not intentionally fanning the flames of an already hot fire. But at the very least, IMO, his post (and its timing) fall into the category of "very poor judgment".

I appreciate that most of you are trying to make constructive suggestions and that a few of you actually seem sensitive to the situation I am in.

But please let's end the public discussion on this subject (at least for a while). This thread is only serving to make an already terrible situation worse.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

Fred might want this thread to end, but I feel obliged to squeeze in one last datapoint:

For anyone who hasn't seen it, here's "Blame Canada"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=25...earch&plindex=2

[matmat]

mike777, on Oct 12 2007, 05:07 AM, said:

I say that because I cannot tell you .........

all this does is verify my long held belief...

[mycroft]

Don't know. Likely you'll find at least 1% of Americans who know FIFA - provided you talk to the 35% of the population who is non-white. All those Mexican immigrants in Southern California will know FIFA...

I was in an Iranian restaurant yesterday; guess what was on the tube (commentary in Farsi). Bet they know FIFA. Okay, I'm not American...

IOC? I think you'd get 1% at least. Maybe not more, but yeah.

WBF? Oh yeah, that's one of the Alphabet Soup belt-granting organizations, yeah? With the IBC and the WBC and the...

Michael.

[nige1]

Please keep the flags flying, Fred!

Pretty and cheerful and fun.

Nowadays all sport is inextricably linked with nationalism. Unfortunately that means you can't avoid some politics. All you can do is to try to prevent the political aspect from becoming too intrusive. And, it seems to me, you do a good job of that.