[CSGibson]

My partner and I have just qualified to represent our district in flight C of the North American Pairs competition to be held in Detroit in March. It's going to be the first Nationals we go to for either of us. I was wondering if people had any advice as to what to expect.

Are the flight C's going to be like a good open club game? Will there still be some obvious mistakes we can take advantage of, or will we have to work harder to create some mistakes?

Thank you for lending me some of your experiences.

[pclayton]

Congratulations! Hope you got 1st or 2nd and earned the subsidy.

Cant vouch for the C's - but have played in the Open and the B's at the national level.

I'd guess winning the C's is just to minimize your own mistakes - you'll get plenty thrown in your lap.

There's a lot of younger player in the C's too - so be prepared for aggression.

Also - the 1st day cut is as deep as any event you'll see - 26 advance out of 73-75 pairs. So you can't just coast to Day 2.

[han]

I played in the GNT's fligth C once. I'd say the average level is a bit higher than your average club game. On the other hand, I don't think that there were any strong players, so if you manage to play solid bridge then you'll likely win. There is certainly no need to do anything unusual.

[helene_t]

That seems to be the concensus in most of the "tactics" polls: just play bridge.

I suppose it applies to the Bermuda Bowl as well.

Not that I can speak with any autority. Two years ago we reached the semifinal in a similar Dutch tourney (Ruitenboer). We ended 99th of 100. Maybe we could have climbed to the 96th place if we had psyched a little, lol.

[Mbodell]

Wow, you guys qualified early, congrats.

In my district we've had the club qualifying game and the unit qualifying game but the district qualifier is in January. I'm hopeful my brand new partnership will qualify, but truthfully it would be a pleasant surprise (playing together for the second time ever in the first session of the (open) unit qualifying game we had a respectable 55%; in the second section we had a 38% but still qualified by beating more than half the C players). But in the past I've seen, for instance, pairs from the US Junior teams playing in the NAP C session, so I think saying that there likely will not be any strong players depends a lot on your definition of strong (or is flat out wrong).

I agree that you should worry more about your own bridge and your own partnership than the field as a whole, but I wouldn't assume the field is going to be a bunch of LOLers.

[vuroth]

I was woefully unprepared when I went, having essentially lucked into a spot. We finished below 50%, but were hardly last place.

I can't really speak for the upper half, but there will certainly be some fairly weak players (club level) at the lower end.

V

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Oct 22 2007, 11:02 PM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 23 2007, 01:37 AM, said:

I'd guess winning the C's is just to minimize your own mistakes - you'll get plenty thrown in your lap.

I don't understand this comment, does it imply that winning any other pair game requires anything different?

Winning all pair games is about minimizing your mistakes and playing good bridge.

CSGibson, expect relatively bad bridge and just play your game. Whatever you did to qualify to the national level will be good enough to win it there if you play your best.

My only point is that you'll (obviously) get more gifts.

[awm]

I've played some in this kind of event, although not in NAP Cs specifically. My observations have been:

(1) There will be no really awful players. The people in the club who can't make cold games will not be there.

(2) There will be no really good players. Most people will have trouble with slam bidding and competitive auctions.

(3) The field will be younger than you'd see at most clubs. The best players in flight C are usually the ones who are there because they haven't had time to accumulate points, meaning the younger players. People do often play in "their own flight" for NAPs because they want the free trip to nationals (I know I played in NAP/GNT B until I was no longer eligible, even though I'd never have considered playing B/C/D events at a regional during most of that time period).

(4) You're likely to see more non-standard methods than you would in a local club game. A lot of young players become enamored of weak notrump, polish club, or whatever just because they're experimenting. A lot of methods that are technically unsound work very well against weak players who don't know what to do against it (good example is 10-12 NT at all colors). While you don't need to play this nonsense to do well (people will hand you good boards if you play your own game) it's good to have a defense ready for some of this stuff -- and most importantly, don't let it throw you off your game.

[jtfanclub]

CSGibson, on Oct 23 2007, 01:05 AM, said:

Are the flight C's going to be like a good open club game? Will there still be some obvious mistakes we can take advantage of, or will we have to work harder to create some mistakes?

Dunno, but I'll see you there!

I think it'll be very different from a club game. There won't be many fish, and there won't be any sharks. Uncontested auctions will be the exception. Due to the wide variety of systems and kids making crazy overcalls, I expect most boards to be all over the place. Should be insteresting.

[FrancesHinden]

Mbodell, on Oct 23 2007, 09:35 AM, said:

But in the past I've seen, for instance, pairs from the US Junior teams playing in the NAP C session, so I think saying that there likely will not be any strong players depends a lot on your definition of strong (or is flat out wrong).

Gosh.

Admittedly my country has much less in the way of restricted events, but when they do there is normally the restriction that you aren't allowed to play in them if you have represented your country at any level [now I think excluding schools/U19, I can't remember].

What's more, back in the far-off days when I was on the English junior squad, none of us would have dreamed of playing in a restricted event, our egos wouldn't have allowed us to.

[Stephen Tu]

I would say remember to use the double card when appropriate & try not to drop too many tricks on defense & you will do fine. The best players there IMO are usually fairly decent card players, but due to lack of experience they are often a little crazy aggro in the bidding, taking theoretically unsound sacrifice actions that an expert would avoid. However, if you fail to double & take the max penalty, such action will be a success for them. So there will be lots of swingy top/bottom boards, need to get 2/3 in your favor. Sometimes you will be fixed, can't do anything about that.

[hrothgar]

FrancesHinden, on Oct 23 2007, 08:27 PM, said:

Mbodell, on Oct 23 2007, 09:35 AM, said:

But in the past I've seen, for instance, pairs from the US Junior teams playing in the NAP C session, so I think saying that there likely will not be any strong players depends a lot on your definition of strong (or is flat out wrong).

Gosh.

Admittedly my country has much less in the way of restricted events, but when they do there is normally the restriction that you aren't allowed to play in them if you have represented your country at any level [now I think excluding schools/U19, I can't remember].

What's more, back in the far-off days when I was on the English junior squad, none of us would have dreamed of playing in a restricted event, our egos wouldn't have allowed us to.

It all boils down to a question of greed...

Roughly 10 years ago four of us entered the Flight C GNTs simply to win the free trip to Chicago. We knew that we were going to play in Chicago. We could all use the cash. It seemed like a no brainer....

Sure enough, we won the trip. (Of course, my partner was unable to actually go to Chicago. The opponents were in 3SXX and were about to down eights tricks when they had a misunderstanding about SOS redoubles. My partner decided that he opened light and decided to pull... Sadly this decision prevented him from being able to join us)

Whats truly sad is that I think that I am still eligible to play in Flight C. (I stopped playing in ACBL shortly thereafter) Everyone once and a while, I vaguely consider going to another Nationals and everyone once and I while I think how damn amusing it would be to collect another reward.

(How about it Tim? Want to put together a team for Flight B GNT's next year?)

[TimG]

hrothgar, on Oct 23 2007, 12:57 PM, said:

(How about it Tim? Want to put together a team for Flight B GNT's next year?)

You realize that would require joining the ACBL, right? But, yes, it would be easy to convince me to give it a shot. Where are the Summer 2008 NABC?

And to Frances: there is a financial incentive to enter these events because of the subsidy to the finals.

[FrancesHinden]

TimG, on Oct 23 2007, 07:12 PM, said:

And to Frances: there is a financial incentive to enter these events because of the subsidy to the finals.

That makes sense, particularly if you are a junior...

[DrTodd13]

I played flight C NAOP at nationals once. My partner and I were a very temporary partnership and he was easily distracted and intimidated so we didn't do too well. However, don't expect much to get thrown into your lap. Do you throw stuff very often into your opponent's lap? In absence of other evidence, you should assume that you're roughly in the middle of the pack. You won't do well by trying to generate good results. Just play your best normal bridge. My estimate is that there will be 4 or 5 pairs who would be competitive in higher brackets but are only playing in flight C because they want a better chance at winning. I met a few really decent pairs there.

Funny story about my experience...day one I was playing some contract against this husband and wife pair and in a complicated situation the husband made a mistake and pitched the wrong card which this enabled a squeeze position against his wife. At the squeeze card, the wife went into the classic "*****, I'm squeezed huddle." At that point, I just claimed saying that if she held X, Y and Z cards she was squeezed in the following manner. The next day against the same pair I was playing another contract. There was another squeeze possibility on this hand as well. I didn't know if the squeeze was operating for sure until the squeeze card when she yet again went into the huddle. I looked at her and said "do I have you again?" She said yes and in comes the overtricks...yeah at matchpoints. She at that point jokingly told me she hoped she never met me again.

Long story short....you're going to meet people who can execute squeezes in flight C.

[pclayton]

TimG, on Oct 23 2007, 10:12 AM, said:

hrothgar, on Oct 23 2007, 12:57 PM, said:

(How about it Tim?  Want to put together a team for Flight B GNT's next year?)

You realize that would require joining the ACBL, right? But, yes, it would be easy to convince me to give it a shot. Where are the Summer 2008 NABC?

And to Frances: there is a financial incentive to enter these events because of the subsidy to the finals.

Las Vegas = 2008 Summers.

[rbforster]

I went to the flight C NAOP's at least once (maybe twice, or maybe I'm confusing it with one of the GNT C's I went to). I think we got 7th maybe, in Reno? I found the field was decent but not particularly good. It was a place were there was little outright incompetence, but plenty of poor judgment. Playing well would still outscore the field, and we didn't try to take wildly anti-field actions (risky slams) unless we were pretty sure it was right.

Unlike the others comments, I didn't recall encountering a lot of unusual systems - maybe the odd weak NT or something. We played 2/1 + overcall structure then, which put it in the fairly unusual category, systems-wise. I actually learned overcall structure specifically for my first NAOP event, where unusual systems catch inexperienced people unprepared and can lead to good results even more than you deserve.

Playing a strong club in similar events later on, we got a lot less aggressive interference than one might expect, and plenty of pairs who would mindlessly pass throughout your strong relay auction.

[keylime]

My five points to help navigate the mine field:

1. Know your system. Documenting it will help greatly and help reduce errors.
2. Double aggressively.
3. Discipline, discipline, discipline.
4. Take your time. Knowing your system allows more energy to win it in the play.
5. Lastly, be prepared. Have a strong club defense, have agreements about weak NT and follow-ons, WJ2005, etc. Also, simplify any ambiguous calls in your method (i.e. specific 2 suiters, IJO's instead of WJO's, and have your runouts mirror your NT defense).

[mycroft]

To add to Keylime:

Expect one total weirdie - but, really, only one. I played against a home-brew strong diamond system. Everything was normal except for one hand where I violated my agreements and opened a "not-good" 5-card suit 2S in third seat white on red, because I was sure that there was a strong diamond on my left (I was right). When he asked about it, I said exactly that, and he said that made sense.

Therefore, don't expect "they lied to us! We want adjustment!" You are much less likely to get it in NAOP C final than at the normal club.

Remember, however, that the world is different from your area. Have defences not only to what Keylime suggests, but to Flannery (and Flannery 2H), Mini-Roman, Bergen Raises, (even if you decide to simplify and play Vic Mitchell's "Nuttin' System"*) and know your defence to interference over your strong bid cold. Bidding after interference to Blackwood, Stayman and Transfers, as well.

Here's one that *will* come up: know your system cold against interference over your 1NT: double for penalty, "random one suit", "good one suit"; 2C showing clubs or "random one suit"; calls that show a specified suit not bid; and calls that show two suits, whether only one is known (bid or unbid), or both suits shown (again, whether or not the suit shown was bid). You won't see all of them, but the one you don't cover will come up (who knew that the only pair playing Astro in the whole room hits you with a 2D showing spades?)

Oh one final note, given that it happened in Reno, although I'm sure you don't need this advice:
Don't show up 10 minutes late and very drunk to the second session, and if by some chance you do, don't respond to the TD's "you're late, start playing" with "$@#% you." (TD's response? "Okay, you have 1/4 board penalty, and you're still late.")

Michael.

* "Don't ask, bid as if it's natural, find out after the auction."