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Same old story

#1 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 18:35

Scoring: IMP

1C - 1H
??

Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#2 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-September-22, 18:56

jlall: 1S
cherdano: 2H
mikeh: 1N
jdonn: whatever my pard likes
mike777: why did we open this hand? my openers are 13+
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#3 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 18:59

awm: would still bid 2H with KQxx KQx xxx QTx
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#4 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 19:00

Jlall, on Sep 22 2007, 06:56 PM, said:

mike777: why did we open this hand? my openers are 13+

mike777 (aggressive day): if my partner expects me to open aggressively I bid 1S and will show extras by bidding 2H next
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#5 User is offline   keylime 

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  Posted 2007-September-22, 19:01

Justin, did you consult Miss Cleo before answering? :D
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 19:13

So what should I bid?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-September-22, 19:15

jdonn got this one right I think (nice post josh).

Anyways I think a style where you bid 1S is best but that's obviously highly debatable and I could be wrong and it probably doesn't make much difference long term what you choose.
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#8 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 19:17

I'll bid my beautiful 4 card ♠ suit as perhaps PD has 4 of them. If not, I can and will support PD's ♥ if his next call is 1NT, 2♣ or 2♦.

..neilkaz..
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#9 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 19:20

Jlall, on Sep 22 2007, 08:15 PM, said:

jdonn got this one right I think (nice post josh).

Um....thank you.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#10 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2007-September-22, 19:22

I bid 1♠ actually, not 2♥. Will bid 2♥ later if partner tries 1nt, using an artificial 2♦ rebid to distinguish between good/bad 2♥ raises. :D
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#11 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 00:04

i pass ... wait, no 1s...
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#12 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 01:18

OK, thanks for the advice Josh.

My partner had this hand and bid 1S, so now I'll know what to do if I ever play with him again.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 05:13

spades are too good to hide them, otherwise 1NT.
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#14 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 05:31

Often 1N with this shape but 1♠ this time. This probably means that I will have to pass p's preference bid of 2♣. In a style in which 1♠ is mandatory with this shape, maybe it makes sense to play 2♥ over p's preference as not showing extras ?

Anyway, why don't you just play T-Walsh, it solves a lot of problems.
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#15 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 06:02

helene_t, on Sep 23 2007, 01:31 PM, said:

Often 1N with this shape but 1♠ this time. This probably means that I will have to pass p's preference bid of 2♣. In a style in which 1♠ is mandatory with this shape, maybe it makes sense to play 2♥ over p's preference as not showing extras ?

Anyway, why don't you just play T-Walsh, it solves a lot of problems.

Well...there's several variations of T-Walsh out there, solving different kinds of problems, some of them creating other problems of their own. In some 1♣-1♦-1♥ shows "any" 11-13/14 and 1NT (17)18-19, in other the 1♥ rebid show exactly 3c♥. In my version the 1♥ rebid shows ANY hand with 3, 13-14 with 4 and most 18-19 balanced with 4....

As to the problem, with my new regular partner (I've got two regulars now) with whom I play Walsh, not T-Walsh, I'd rebid 1NT, since 1♠ promises an unbalanced hand. With most non-regular partners in my area I'd rebid 1♠ either playing up-the-line bidding or Walsh.
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#16 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 06:16

1S.

An old fashioned bid for an old
problem.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#17 User is offline   david_c 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 07:01

1NT or 2♥.

I don't understand 1♠: when partner bids hearts we're much more likely to belong in hearts than in spades. Bidding 1♠ seems to bury the heart suit, for example if partner bids 2♣ now.
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#18 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 07:33

P_Marlowe, on Sep 23 2007, 07:16 AM, said:

1S.

An old fashioned bid for an old
problem.

With kind regards
Marlowe

The problem can't be too old -- this hasn't been an opening bid for that long.
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#19 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2007-September-23, 12:06

2♥ or 1♠ depending on partner's wishes. Never 1N :)
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#20 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-September-23, 13:29

david_c, on Sep 23 2007, 08:01 AM, said:

1NT or 2♥.

I don't understand 1♠: when partner bids hearts we're much more likely to belong in hearts than in spades. Bidding 1♠ seems to bury the heart suit, for example if partner bids 2♣ now.

I know you know this but just to clarify for everyone, obviously hands where partner has a game going hand don't matter since we will find the right spot regardless of what we start with. So to discuss partscores:

1S keeps in play playing 1N, 2C, 2S, and 2H when partner has 6. The downside is that we miss 5-3 heart fits. My feeling is though the single most likely scenario is that we want to play 2H in a 5-3, the combined possibilities that we belong in spades, NT, or clubs is greater than the chance we belong in a 5-3 heart fit.

Obviously on this hand 1N is the most likely bid to get us to the wrong spot (as I'm sure even the rational 1N advocates will tell you), but it fits into a system where 1S shows an unbalanced hand and the gains on all other bids you make besides 1N are greater than in a system where you bid 1S or 2H on this hand.
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