[Fluffy]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2007, 07:29 PM, said:

Obviously on this hand 1N is the most likely bid to get us to the wrong spot (as I'm sure even the rational 1N advocates will tell you)

What? 1NT only missed 4-4 spade fit, other than that it lets us:

play in 5-3 heart fit any time partner has 5
play in 1NT when no fit
play in 2♦ when we have 2-5 or 2-6 fit
play in 3♣ when we have fit.

It is obviously better than 2♥

[mikeh]

Jlall, on Sep 23 2007, 02:29 PM, said:

david_c, on Sep 23 2007, 08:01 AM, said:

1NT or 2♥.

I don't understand 1♠: when partner bids hearts we're much more likely to belong in hearts than in spades. Bidding 1♠ seems to bury the heart suit, for example if partner bids 2♣ now.

I know you know this but just to clarify for everyone, obviously hands where partner has a game going hand don't matter since we will find the right spot regardless of what we start with. So to discuss partscores:

1S keeps in play playing 1N, 2C, 2S, and 2H when partner has 6. The downside is that we miss 5-3 heart fits. My feeling is though the single most likely scenario is that we want to play 2H in a 5-3, the combined possibilities that we belong in spades, NT, or clubs is greater than the chance we belong in a 5-3 heart fit.

Obviously on this hand 1N is the most likely bid to get us to the wrong spot (as I'm sure even the rational 1N advocates will tell you), but it fits into a system where 1S shows an unbalanced hand and the gains on all other bids you make besides 1N are greater than in a system where you bid 1S or 2H on this hand.

absolutely

Actually, I have no objection to 2♥, but in none of my partnerships can I safely bid 1♠, since doing so promises 9+ black cards.

In one of my partnerships, the raise promises 4 cards, but we also play (in 1st and 2nd) an 11-14 1N, so this hand is not an issue. In the others, I have no objection to 2♥.. so for me, 1N or 2♥. As it happens, I prefer 1N but it is no big deal.

If I were to bid 1N it would be with the full knowledge that this could get us to the worst partscore, but never to the wrong game or slam... and 2♥ has the downside of sometimes getting us to the wrong high-level contract (it will be tough to sort out the auction after, for example, a 2♠ bid by responder over my 2♥, if I raise)

BTW, my form of t-walsh has opener accepting the transfer with this hand, showing 2 or 3 hearts, and a balanced hand.... over which 2♣ puppets to 2♦ and 2♦ is gf, exactly as if I had rebid 1N over a natural 1♥ response.