[flytoox]

play 2/1 with pickup pd, pd open 1s, RHO came in with 2c. Sitting south, you hold:

S: Q8X
H: AJ
D: AT8XX
C: AXX

VUL VS NON.

W N E S
1S 2C ?

1) 2D
2) 3C
3) Other


Does cuebid opp's suit gurantees 4-card support?

thx

fly

[inquiry]

With a pick up partner, with whom I have not discussed the meaning of a cue-bid, I would not think that a cue-bid would promise 4 card support. What I would do with this hand is bid a forcing 2D (I assume we did not discuss playing negative free bids, so this is forcing), planning on cue-bidding 3C (second round cue-bid game force) if I get a chance, otherwise support spades or "cue-bid" 4 clubs implying support (depending upon the auction). Having said that, with a pickup partner, I am not going to criticize an immediate 3C cue-bid, given you are not going to have a finely tuned auction either way and there is something to be said for simplicity.

Ben

This topic is very similar to the one I posted yesterday on the meaning of cue-bids (see http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...?showtopic=1951 ).

[flytoox]

inquiry, on Jan 15 2004, 09:01 PM, said:

What I would do with this hand is bid a forcing 2D (I assume we did not discuss playing negative free bids, so this is forcing), planning on cue-bidding 3C (second round cue-bid game force) if I get a chance, otherwise support spades or "cue-bid" 4 clubs implying support (depending upon the auction). Ben

Suppose you bid 2d and pd rebid 2h, both opp passed, now what do you bid?

W N E S
1S 2C 2D
P 2H P ?


Does 3c show spt for s or h?

[inquiry]

Over my partner's 2H bid, I will bid 3C. This is now game force, and with a pick up partner it would promise neither spades nor hearts, but would be game forcing.

[paulg]

In this auction I think 3C is clearly just a game forcing bid, asking partner to bid 3NT with a stop and otherwise to make the most descriptive bid possible.

As 2S is non-forcing but invitational on this auction, 3S must be forcing and that's probably the most descriptive bid on the hand. The other bid I can think of is 4C, but many would expect shortage for this and it doesn't sound like a bid agreeing spades.

I can see the auction going

West   North  East   South
-      1S     2C     2D
Pass   2H     Pass   3S
Pass   4S     Pass   5C
...

Paul

[paulg]

flytoox, on Jan 15 2004, 08:52 PM, said:

play 2/1 with pickup pd, pd open 1s, RHO came in with 2c. Sitting south, you hold:

S: Q8X
H: AJ
D: AT8XX
C: AXX

VUL VS NON.

W N E S
1S 2C ?

1) 2D
2) 3C
3) Other


Does cuebid opp's suit gurantees 4-card support?

thx

fly

Ben's replies are most sensible for a pickup partnership.

With a regular partner you may consider Robson & Segal ideas with 2NT showing 4-card raises and the cuebid showing 3-card raises.

Paul

[flytoox]

cardsharp, on Jan 15 2004, 09:27 PM, said:

Ben's replies are most sensible for a pickup partnership.

With a regular partner you may consider Robson & Segal ideas with 2NT showing 4-card raises and the cuebid showing 3-card raises.

Paul

Paul, did they say 2N is conventional 4-card raise in this case? I read that book but cannt remember this point. What to do with 11-12 balanced hand?

thx
fly

[luke warm]

flytoox, on Jan 15 2004, 11:35 PM, said:

cardsharp, on Jan 15 2004, 09:27 PM, said:

Ben's replies are most sensible for a pickup partnership.

With a regular partner you may consider Robson & Segal ideas with 2NT showing 4-card raises and the cuebid showing 3-card raises.

Paul

Paul, did they say 2N is conventional 4-card raise in this case? I read that book but cannt remember this point. What to do with 11-12 balanced hand?

thx
fly

i'd have to read it again (ask ben, i'm sure he remembers), but it seems to me that it's just the opposite..

[irdoz]

In the Robson-Segal book over an overcall they suggest :-

2nt as a 4 card limit+ raise with a high ODR
Non-jump cue as a 3 card limit+ raise or 4 cards with a low ODR

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Jan 15 2004, 04:35 PM, said:

did they say 2N is conventional 4-card raise in this case? I read that book but cannt remember this point. What to do with 11-12 balanced hand?

As pointed out above, 2NT shows a 4 card+ raise, and what I call constructive values or better. The three level cue-bid shows a high card raise with 3 card support, __OR___ a four card raise with low ODR. What is odr? Offensive to Defense Ratio. Aces are good for offense or defense. Shortnes in their suit is good for offense, secondary honors in your suit is good for offense, legnth in their suit, and side suit secondary honors are good for defense.

The GENERAL rule of R/S with support is to show the nature of the support first, then catch up on high card stregnth later. So with this hand, the Robson/Segal bid would be 3C immediately, followed by insisting on game... this will show three card support and game values.

As for what to do with 11-12 hcp balanced, the solution is failry simple. The idea is with three card support, cue-bid. With doubleton support and four cards in their suit, pass expect partner to reopen with double. With four cards in the other suits, walla... negative double. And of course, you always have the option to jump to 3NT.. and hope it works out.

Ben

[EricK]

flytoox, on Jan 15 2004, 08:52 PM, said:

play 2/1 with pickup pd, pd open 1s, RHO came in with 2c. Sitting south, you hold:

S: Q8X
H: AJ
D: AT8XX
C: AXX

VUL VS NON.

W    N    E    S
    1S    2C  ?

1) 2D
2) 3C
3) Other


Does cuebid opp's suit gurantees 4-card support?

thx

fly

I would bid 3C. I do not want partner to downgrade his hand if he has a singleton diamond. If my diamonds were KJTxx then I would bid 2D followed by showing spade support.

I do not believe that a cue-bid should promise 4 card support.

Eric

[luis]

2d, when pd bids 2h I bid 3s. Game forcing hand with 3 cards in spades and a diamond suit. Pretty clear I think.

[Free]

Dbl, 9+HCP, since 2D is NF imo...

[inquiry]

Free, on Jan 16 2004, 10:39 AM, said:

Dbl, 9+HCP, since 2D is NF imo...

I seriously doubt that 2D as "non-forcing" is standard 2/1, double with this hand to establish a force would simply never occur to me as being the "right bid".

[Trpltrbl]

inquiry, on Jan 16 2004, 11:25 AM, said:

Free, on Jan 16 2004, 10:39 AM, said:

Dbl, 9+HCP, since 2D is NF imo...

I seriously doubt that 2D as "non-forcing" is standard 2/1, double with this hand to establish a force would simply never occur to me as being the "right bid".

Bid 2(forcing) and after pd's rebid, bid 3.
That is normal 2/1 GF, and possibly still slaminterest too.

Mike

[bridgerod]

flytoox, on Jan 15 2004, 04:08 PM, said:

inquiry, on Jan 15 2004, 09:01 PM, said:

What I would do with this hand is bid a forcing 2D (I assume we did not discuss playing negative free bids, so this is forcing), planning on cue-bidding 3C (second round cue-bid game force) if I get a chance, otherwise support spades or "cue-bid" 4 clubs implying support (depending upon the auction). Ben

Suppose you bid 2d and pd rebid 2h, both opp passed, now what do you bid?

W N E S
1S 2C 2D
P 2H P ?


Does 3c show spt for s or h?

After partner's 2H , I will bid 2S to show S fit + D suit
It's still force at least 1 round

[flytoox]

[quote name='bridgerod' date='Jan 18 2004, 06:11 AM'] W N E S
1S 2C 2D
P 2H P ?


Does 3c show spt for s or h? [/QUOTE]
After partner's 2H , I will bid 2S to show S fit + D suit
It's still force at least 1 round [/quote]
2S is passable, so u cant bid 2s here i think.

fly

[bridgerod]

[quote name='flytoox' date='Jan 18 2004, 03:01 PM'] [quote name='bridgerod' date='Jan 18 2004, 06:11 AM'] W N E S
1S 2C 2D
P 2H P ?


Does 3c show spt for s or h? [/QUOTE]
After partner's 2H , I will bid 2S to show S fit + D suit
It's still force at least 1 round [/QUOTE]
2S is passable, so u cant bid 2s here i think.

fly [/quote]
I know Mike Lawrence's style
Opener can stop short of game when responder gives preference

But not everyone plays in this way:)

If you prefer to Mile's style,
I think you can bid something other than 2S

maybe 3S is invitational......
maybe 3C is forcing......

[flytoox]

bridgerod, on Jan 19 2004, 06:01 AM, said:

Opener can stop short of game when responder gives preference

But not everyone plays in this way:)

If you prefer to Mile's style,
I think you can bid something other than 2S

maybe 3S is invitational......
maybe 3C is forcing......

what is miles' style? hehe, i do follow mike lawrence's style, blindly:)

[bridgerod]

flytoox, on Jan 20 2004, 06:41 AM, said:

bridgerod, on Jan 19 2004, 06:01 AM, said:

Opener can stop short of game when responder gives preference

But not everyone plays in this way:)

If you prefer to Mile's style,
I think you can bid something other than 2S

maybe 3S is invitational......
maybe 3C is forcing......

what is miles' style? hehe, i do follow mike lawrence's style, blindly:)

Sorry , It`s Mike , not Mile:)
the bottom "k" is near "l".......