[awm]

Suppose you are playing a strong club system, where major suit openings are natural (5+ cards) and limited to 10-15 points. With which types of hands do you pass the opening?

[zasanya]

With my regular P I play it the same way as 2/1.Our Forcing Nt is 0-12 though.

[rbforster]

With zero points, a fit, and no enemy competition yet, consider a short suit 2/1 and then drive to game .

[gingolia]

awm, on Apr 10 2007, 11:34 AM, said:

Suppose you are playing a strong club system, where major suit openings are natural (5+ cards) and limited to 10-15 points. With which types of hands do you pass the opening?

OP, are you looking for a deterministic answer? (if so, ignore this )

Given that responder knows his partner's (limited 1M opener's) hand within a much tighter range, it seems like it would be useful to adopt a mixed bidding strategy:

- e.g., with an invitation hand with some likelihood of a misfit, one might pass 30% of the time and bid on 70% of the time ...
- e.g., with a weak (0-8 hcp) hand but fit, one might adopt a mixed strategy of preemptive raise/ simple raise/ forcing raise/ psychic bid.

[jmc]

My personal philosopy has been to still stretch to respond with possible fits. Our agreement is that partner can pass whenever game is not possible and bidding doesn't seem to make much sense.

If I hold x, xxx, xxxx,xxxxx and as few as 2 queens after p bids 1S, I will bid 1NT forcing planning to pass any response by partner. I really dislike playing with some "old style" precision players who might pass with this hand and up to 9 high card points. i think letting the opponents find their fit doesn't usually work out to well.

its important to consider that I do not play in as good of fields as many of you here play in.

jmc

[effervesce]

No fit: Pass with up to ~8HCP
With fit: Raise with down to ~3HCP-usually to ensure that p leads right thing-will often pass with more and a fit with xxx in p's suit since you dont really want that suit led.

With Kxx in the suit however you want to make sure if the opps bid game that ur p does not make a bad lead letting them make game when they shouldnt.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

not playing a limited system, but if you have
a fit, you should avoid passing, entering the
auction on the one level is easy, and with minimal
risk, because they know, that the hands will be
20:20.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

In 1st and 2nd seat I prefer relay responses, in which case I would pass many hands without game interest (up to 9 HCP!) and no fit. If we don't have the distribution or the fit, I prefer to stay safely in 1♥/♠. Usually this is the start of a competetive auction, though.

In 3rd and 4th seat I would still pass a lot of hands without fit, but I prefer them to be hands that are either balanced or 2-suited (the last out of fear that partner has the OTHER two suits). With a fit I stretch to bid, and 1-suiters can be shown cheaply now without overstating my values.

[lowerline]

I usually don't pass with 7hcp or more. I usually don't bid with 4hcp or less.

[whereagles]

There's no rule for this. It's a judgement issue. Sometimes it's good to pass with 8 hcp, others you should bid with 0 hcp...

[Apollo81]

whereagles, on Apr 13 2007, 06:34 AM, said:

There's no rule for this. It's a judgement issue. Sometimes it's good to pass with 8 hcp, others you should bid with 0 hcp...

agree

[cherdano]

I am not sure what people are talking about when they say they pass with 8hcp and no fit. Does that mean they pass with a balanced 8-count with a doubleton in partner's major? Or is this only about having a suspected misift with a singleton or void in partner's suit?

I have played a few long sets against a partnership who routinely passes balanced 8-counts, and my impression is that it is not a sound strategy.

Of course, this strategy is only possible if you tend to upgrade 15-counts with shape, or good 14-counts, otherwise you may miss game too often. Either way you give up on what should be one of the advantages of a limited system, that opener can strongly bid out his shape with 14-15 counts and good playing strength without overstating his strength, finding some games that standard players would miss.

[Stephen Tu]

When I played Precision, I read in some books about this passing with 6-8 pts on some hands, so I tried it. It never worked out for me at all. You miss better fits in other suits, & let the opponents in too easily. & you don't really have enough to confidently axe the opps when they are wrong, and partner obviously doesn't either, with your pass.

Bidding tends to keep you even with the field. I can't remember hands where passing these gained something.

[Gerben42]

I don't know I've had some nice penalties from it. Turned out we had the majority after all

[keylime]

I tend to for some silly reason beyond me right now, to respond more often playing a limited bid method versus a more "standard" approach just due to the ability to not get hung out if pard jump shifts his/her hand.

[cherdano]

Gerben42, on Apr 13 2007, 01:49 PM, said:

I don't know I've had some nice penalties from it. Turned out we had the majority after all

I have had some nice penalties from letting precision opponents play in their 1M "fit" undoubled (Down 3 vulnerable or similar.)

[Flame]

Intresting question, Against world class oppononents today i held 1444 a single in partner 1♠ opening and 1 hcp.
We open 4 card spade but i dont think its matter too much.
I decided to bid 1NT and went down 4 undoubled all vul they had a game so we won some imps, Yet if it got doubled we would probebly pay alot (even if we run). Later i thought maybe i was better to pass the 1♠ which has much less chances of getting doubled for penatly, and even if it does i can redouble out of it.
The minus is playing 1♠ in 4-1 fit is probebly not our best spot.
Not sure whats best.