[csdenmark]

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Claus, like Richard has a position he likes to push. Richard likes to push HTML convention cards as the wave of the future. Claus would like to see ANY convention card filled out. I think most of his post (I havne't reread it) was a plea to get the golden boys to fill out their cc when they play, and he would not kibitz them until they do... he wants them to lead by example.

But I think he misunderstands gold star players. I doubt they sought the gold star, and for the most part, are not comming to the BBO to provide entertainment for Klaus or any of the rest of us, but rather for themselves.

YES Ben - I want to see the original intensions of the http://groups.msn.co...*wlDtjczbVBXquQ to be fulfilled. I want to see they act with dignity to the sign they have asked for themselves. They get no http://groups.msn.co...*wlDtjczbVBXquQ unless they have asked Fred for it. As far as I remember Fred has informed they even need to send their credentials.

[the hog]

Personally I think that if more top players join and play on bbo as a result of this, then it has to be a good thing. Wtp?

[bglover]

It's just that simple... why some of these remarks have upset me. There shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

Thx Ron

[ecepal]

HI ALL
I tired to keep it quiet so far but what i am seeing is
bunch of kids!!!!
CDenmark I will answer you with your own LOGO
"IF IT IS WORHT DOING IT DO IT"
SO my dear fellow BBO user.. Me and MY friends Steve ,Doofik we are doing it...
That is very pity coming someone who I have never seen
playing on "common" lobby to all members....
Will say no more I believe some of us has bigger ego than the others..
I am still positive and thank all of you with all your critisism
although most of them are very presumptious...
these only gives me more desire to make it a success.
ece

[luke warm]

it seems simple to me... the concept should serve the purpose for which it was created - to help bbo grow... it should have a 'pebble in the pond' effect.. more world class players equals more who want to watch (and learn) equals even more, etc etc

i'm all for it, and for the life of me i can't understand why anyone would be against it

[Rhutobello]

First let me again say that the club is fine, the founders have done a great job and so on (and it is from my heart!)

The reason for me to respond this time is for those of you that promote no problems.

I know that I will never will reach advance level in bridge, because I have never time to study or to play therfore the club will never be any goal for me!

On the other hand I am fond of BBO, and it is BBO that I fight for, taken from the way I see it.

If we all say halleleluja, BBO don't get any thoughts that might help them on the next crossroad.

So you can be for something or ageinst it, that is both good, and give your thoughts, but DON*T say there are no problems, because problems will there always be, one way or another.
Just look to beg-int club, just look to all discussion about who are an expert, who are not.....Feelings are strong forces!

Agein Good luck
Edvin

[doofik]

Hello Edvin:

Just read your post and thought I'd try a reply so please bear with me.

Top Flight is meant to simply give World Class players a chance to play together, to test against the best. And you're right, there will be problems as already people who never knew that I exist (I don't know how that happened ;D) are greeting me as if I were a long-lost buddy. The idea of Top Flight is simple, either you're worthy of a gold star in the BBO value system or you're not. And as such, if you agree to join Top Flight, you get the right to nominate A PARTNER to play with. To date, we've been able to attract World Class players who don't even come to BBO. We will see how much time they'll be able to devote to playing. Refusals we've gotten have been due to time constraints; everyone we've approached has been thrilled with the idea. I hope that says volumes.

Jola

[keylime]

Jola,

You are hearby decreed "long-lost buddy" of BBO.

Anyone know how much one of those nametags cost?

[doofik]

Well, we held two events for Top Flight. Steve got his wish, we had 4 pairs in each event. The evening one drew over 80 kibs - of course, Eric Kokish and Beverly Kraft played against Bruce Gowdy with someone named sfr. At the other table demilton played with Stan against val22 and Solange. It appeared that everyone was having a good time, both the players and the kibs. An expert commentary was provided by Bob McPhee, thank you Bob:-)

In the afternoon the frequency was much lesser even though the quality was there as famus with syra competed against Tiger_ with kapitanski. At the other table, smispi with ollina played against ppilot and szu. Again a great time was had by all.

Look forward to seeing more players and kibs at Top Flight matches and tourneys.

[dogsbreath]

I wish you success with the Gold-Star club .. as Ron says ..what's the problem?.. will be pleasant to have quality games to watch occassionally.

[Trpltrbl]

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Congrat with new club.

Now we have one in the bottom (beg-int) and one in the top.

The one in bottom I can understand, because it has spesefic goal to make better players.

The one in top, I am not so sure of. ~~snip~~
Edvin

hi edwin... i can only speak for myself, but i personally love to kib good players... it'd be the same at a major chess event, any golf event, etc, where pros play... it's a learning experience... as for cliques, they already exist ... but that's ok too

Having a goldstar doesn't mean they r good players I have seen some of these goldstars in action and my mom plays better. And believe me, that ain't a compliment I am sure most of the goldstars can hold their own but being a topplayer in a country where they maybe only have 100 players mite not a good qualification. But if that what in r eyes makes a topplayer go for it but leave me out, I know how to find my own good game ;D

Mike ;D

[luke warm]

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Having a goldstar doesn't mean they r good players I have seen some of these goldstars in action and my mom plays better. And believe me, that ain't a compliment I am sure most of the goldstars can hold their own but being a topplayer in a country where they maybe only have 100 players mite not a good qualification. But if that what in r eyes makes a topplayer go for it but leave me out, I know how to find my own good game ;D
Mike ;D

mike, the lack of a star doesn't make one a bad player, and having a gold star doesn't make one a good player *every night*.. we all have bad nites, even the best in the world.. but the best in the world have fewer bad nites, and they play a high level of bridge for long periods of time...

it amazes me sometimes to see the number of people who put 'expert' by their name.. it makes me want to ask, in whose eyes? i'm personally capable of some very good play AND some incredibly bad play.. the true expert differs in that the bad play is rare... not unheard of, just rare

[Trpltrbl]

I actually think it mite be more of a BBO problem, by selecting certain players. Like I said earlier, having a topplayer in a country with 100 players or so, whereas this player wud play in USA maybe in Flight B. Maybe BBO has to chance the way the give away the stars 8)

Mike ;D

[luke warm]

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I actually think it mite be more of a BBO problem, by slecting certain players. Like I said ealrier, having a topplayer in a country with 100 players or so, whereas this player wud play in USA maybe in Flight B. Maybe BBO has to chance the way the give away the stars 8)

Mike ;D

i don't think that's quite fair.. the stars are given (usually - i think there may be a spouse or two where this isn't so) according to results the players have attained... want a gold star? enter a big tourney, enter several, and have good results

i don't see any problem, personally.. and if you don't mind me saying so, i think it's a tad on the arrogant side for you (or me, or anyone else without the *recognized* credentials) to be flighting international players... but that's just my opinion

[keylime]

I can't resist, I'm going to just light one up here and let it fly -

There are WAY too many people claiming expert status online. Maybe due to fragile personalities, fear of getting "inferior" or "substandard" partners, potential pseudo-exclusion from certain events - you get the picture.

I like to give one example, a member who will rename nameless. This member I'd say 2.5-3 weeks ago had a private for their skill level - no biggie, was clear to me the person had a decent amount of bridge acumen. After playing against them however, they suddenly became an "expert", even though we had soundly trounced them. Now, they have retreated, demoted, downgraded, whatever to "advanced". The logic for these actions are beyond my little pea brain to handle.

To me, an expert embodies five basic qualities:

1. A sound profiency in multiple systems with the ability to think within them to gain maximum results.

2. An individual that is NOT selective when it comes to playing with people (advanced players, look at their profiles, MOST of them got the "this is what I play list").

3. A person who has had success at multiple levels of the game, in multiple disciplines of the game.

4. Someone who is versed in the Laws of the game, and uses them to protect his partner AND his opponents when an irregularity occurs.

5. Last one, a BIGGIE: A great overall player, but even a GREATER overall PERSON, one who plays the game to further the people who are trying to acheive "advanced"/"expert" status.

Using this criteria, it would eliminate about 90-95 percent of the population who claim "expert" status. In all honesty, I can only name a handful whom I consider a true expert - David Horner (horndog), Ed Groner (edgroner), and a couple of others. They have exemplified all of the needed prerequisites in m eyes.

[luke warm]

what dwayne said is true, but he's talking about those who "self-assign" skill levels.. the gold stars on bbo aren't able to do that, they are given that honor by fred or his delegates...

for my money, the granting of gold stars is in good hands

[Trpltrbl]

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what dwayne said is true, but he's talking about those who "self-assign" skill levels.. the gold stars on bbo aren't able to do that, they are given that honor by fred or his delegates...

for my money, the granting of gold stars is in good hands

Good enough for me for now, you all have fun with r club. ;D I just disagree witht the fact that y see a Gold Star and think immmediatly we have a good player here, because a lot of time y don't. I agree that a person can be a expert player, but it is a pdship that makes a player worldclass. Someone else already posted that, so I am not taking any credit for that


Mike ;D

[doofik]

If I may respond...

What you're not taking into consideration is that if we plan to have a club for World Class we need to look at some common value. The common value in case of Top Flight is the gold star. It is not up to us to assess why a given player has received the star, and I have zero intentions of questioning the qualifications.

It's a given that in a country with 100 players the level of a star might be lesser. That being said, I believe that those players who were given a gold star had to have qualified to their country's representation in an international event. You generally don't qualify if you're a Flight B player and I think it might be wise to consider that if BBO feels that a representative of a given country is worthy of a gold star it might be a way to popularize the game so that at the next event there are 200 players vying for the right to represent the country. That's how the game becomes competitive.

The truth of the matter is that there are a few power countries with rich bridge tradition and then there are others. If you cared about the game, how would you go about a growing membership? I think BBO is doing it the right way, my humble opinion

[uday]

Just FYI - the star process works like this (these days!)

FG is the only person who can assigns stars. People who want stars, or who feel other people deserve stars, can send an email to fred - at bridgebase.com - and mention the potential stars username, real name, and qualifications (esp. if the player is not all that well known outside his host country). We also require that a star use a real name in his/her profile (that is, the profile cannot be "private").

One thing to be careful of when nominating a star is to be sure that the person being nominated is really Meckstroth, and not some hoser trying to be cute. Every now and again, we run across this sort of thing.

We've refined the star process a little over the months. Sure, we've grandfathered in some non-world champs, but i think by and large the std. of stars is pretty high.

[Free]

I think some people are just jalous that they don't have a gold star, and if a star makes a mistake he's a bad player in their opinion. It's a ridiculous logic, but hey, I don't care! If these persons feel fine this way, that's fine by me.

Sure I'd like a gold star for myself, but I think I won't get it (yet ). Who doesn't want to be recognized as a good player? Just a thought...

Free