[mike777]

In 2/1 with Walsh is there general agreement on this auction?

1H=1S
2C=3D?

Assume 1h=3d=bergen raise.

[han]

Are we also playing kickback and Mexican 2D?

I am not sure if there is a general agreement on this auction, I know that some people play this as natural and strong, others may play it as a splinter.


[Commercial break: Arend's improvement of NSI uses 2D as a drop in hearts or any invitational hand, while 2H is an artificial game-force. All bids above 2S are natural and gameforcing. 3D would show 5-5 and some slam interest, great treatment!]

[SoTired]

BWS plays this as 5-5 invitational

[blackshoe]

I doubt it.

I would think it's splinter.

Not sure what Kickback (asking for key cards) and Mexican 2 ♦ (which is an opening bid) have to do with it.

[jdonn]

blackshoe, on Jun 21 2006, 01:10 PM, said:

I doubt it. 

I would think it's splinter.

Not sure what Kickback (asking for key cards) and Mexican 2 ♦ (which is an opening bid) have to do with it.

I think 5-5 invitational is standard, but I prefer to play it as 5-5 game forcing. 5-5 invitational I would much rather just bid 2NT, and my way frees up 4th suit then rebid 4th suit as still unsure where to go instead of natural. Like

1♥ 1♠
2♣ 2♦
3♣

I would bid 3♦ on KQxxx Ax xxxx Ax since I think 3♥ should show real support. I can only do this if responder's 4th suit jump on the prior round is a natural game force.

Blackshoe, I think Hannie is making the same point that you are, just more sarcastically in other words, what do Bergen raises have to do with it either?

[mike777]

Ok then what do you guys do with your 4spades and longer D hands that are weakish?
1) Just drop the D suit?
2) Forget the spade suit and start with 1nt? even at MP?

I wanted to rule out 1h=3d as being natural, that is the reason for Bergen note, good grief.

[jdonn]

mike777, on Jun 21 2006, 02:51 PM, said:

Ok then what do you guys do with your 4spades and longer D hands that are weakish?
1) Just drop the D suit?
2) Forget the spade suit and start with 1nt? even at MP?

3) Play Kaplan inversion of course.

If you aren't, then usually I will choose 1) (if partner rebids 1NT we still get to diamonds, if partner rebids 2♣ like here there is just nothing I can do), but will go with 2) if the spades are lousy and diamonds very good, like Jxxx x KQTxxx xx.

[keylime]

I treat it as G/F.

[pbleighton]

5-5 GF.

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

one standard agreement for the
jump in the 4th suit is, that it is natural
game forcing.

But that has nothing to do with 2/1, Walsh
and the rest.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS:I dont believe, that you can play it as inv.,
partner showed 9 card, min, you tell about
9-10 cards in the other suit ... i.e. you have
a missfit auction.
If you also miss the power of HCP, ... well
there are less obvious invitations for a penalty dbl.

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on Jun 21 2006, 02:51 PM, said:

Ok then what do you guys do with your 4spades and longer D hands that are weakish?
1) Just drop the D suit?
2) Forget the spade suit and start with 1nt? even at MP?

I wanted to rule out 1h=3d as being natural, that is the reason for Bergen note, good grief.

Hi,

it depends, if you hold a 7 card diamond
suit, bid 1 NT followed by a diamond bid.

Else bid the spade and forget about
diamond.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Of course if you play Flannery, you can
ignore the 4 card spade suit.

[Kalvan14]

1♥-1♠-2♣-3♦: 6/+ diamonds, 4 spades, weakish hand (denies 2 hearts)

[Cascade]

I've given up on standard for more esoteric auctions.

I mean is there really a standard?

I wouldn't make this bid in a non-practiced partnership unless agreed.

In my regular partnership we play a jump in the 4th suit as natural. But we don't play 2/1 or anything like that.

Bid and rebid diamonds is either a cue for the last bid suit or nothing clear to say. Its never natural for me.

[cherdano]

Assuming we play Kokish after 2♣, I would guess this as 5-5, forcing. But BWS certainly makes sense.

Arend

[whereagles]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that

[joker_gib]

5-5 GF

Alain

[han]

whereagles, on Jun 22 2006, 08:00 AM, said:

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

[Echognome]

Hannie, on Jun 22 2006, 01:55 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 22 2006, 08:00 AM, said:

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

A hand with 9 diamonds where you psyched a 1♥ opening?

Mirror behind partner's hand?

A 3♦ bid after 2.38 minutes hesitation?

A 37 point hand that opened 1♥?

Yeesh... no imagination...

[SoTired]

I think a weak 4-6 should choose between opener's suits. The jump to 3D on a weak 4-6 risks playing 3DX on a 6-1 or 6-0 fit, rather than 2C or 2H undoubled on a 5-2 fit.

I think the 3D jump on a weak 4-6 only applies to NMF.

[whereagles]

Hannie, on Jun 22 2006, 01:55 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 22 2006, 08:00 AM, said:

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

Hum.. 17-18 hcp with 1534 and strong diamonds? Say

x
AKxxx
AKQ
Qxxx