BBO Discussion Forums: RKCB 30/41 or 41/30 ? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

RKCB 30/41 or 41/30 ?

#1 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2003-November-07, 04:56

I've seen it more and more these days: people play RKCB with answers as follows:
5C = 1 or 4 kc (in stead of 0 or 3)
5D = 0 or 3 kc (in stead of 1 or 4)
5H = 2 kc without trump Q
5S = 2 kc with trump Q

1. What are the big advantages about this aproach?
2. What are the disadvantages?
3. Does anybody play it? Why or why not?


Free
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#2 User is offline   inquiry 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 14,564
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amelia Island, FL
  • Interests:Bridge, what else?

Posted 2003-November-07, 07:02

To really blow your mind, take a read of kantar's excellent 20+ chapters on RKCB. In particular the discussion of Strong Hand/Weak Hand responses to RKBC, where the response flip back and forth from 14, 03 to 03, 14 to see advantages of each and when one is superior to the other.

http://www.kantarbridge.com/rkb.htm
--Ben--

#3 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2003-November-07, 08:46

I didn't know anyone could write 23 chapters about RKC!!! tnx Ben
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#4 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2003-November-07, 17:39

kantar does say (i think) that if you use only one, 1430 is the one to use.. also, fred wrote some 2/1 articles on bbo and in one he said something about 1430 being surerior, and said he'd write more on the subject when he had time.. not sure if he has yet
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#5 User is offline   twcho 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hong Kong

Posted 2003-November-07, 19:41

The logic behind is simple:
Since the third step response and above are the same, the only difference is the first two steps. Which response you will be more interested in for slam, 1 KC or 0 KC? Of course, 1 KC and you will like to have more space to explore so it is better for responding 1/4 to the 1st step. (If responder has 3 or 4 KC, he will automatically continue the bidding regardless of pd signing off assuming he is not a super strong hand which 3KC should be a minimum)
0

#6 User is offline   mishovnbg 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 769
  • Joined: 2003-February-14
  • Location:Bulgaria, Varna
  • Interests:Bridge - new bidding systems, psyches; Computers - education, service, program; Computer games great fan :-)

Posted 2003-November-08, 00:22

Hi Frederick!
Only one real advantage - can ask for QHE below 5HE on trump HE with 1CK. Bridge lose much more due to needing to agree one more thing in such endless metter in my opinon.
Misho
MishoVnBg
0

#7 User is offline   bhugi 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 40
  • Joined: 2003-October-13
  • Location:Hong Kong

Posted 2003-November-08, 01:51

Quote

Hi Frederick!
Only one real advantage - can ask for QHE below 5HE on trump HE with 1CK. Bridge lose much more due to needing to agree one more thing in such endless metter in my opinon.
Misho


right, so I use 1403 for majors and 0314 for minors ~ ;D
0314 let you have the chance to pass 5C when partner has 0 key cards
0

#8 User is offline   bearmum 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 757
  • Joined: 2003-July-06
  • Location:Perth Australia

Posted 2003-November-14, 05:31

now THAT sounds like a good idea - BUT I hope ypu laert OPPS EVERY time ?? B)


Quote

Quote

Hi Frederick!
Only one real advantage - can ask for QHE below 5HE on trump HE with 1CK. Bridge lose much more due to needing to agree one more thing in such endless metter in my opinon.
Misho


right, so I use 1403 for majors and 0314 for minors ~ ;D
0314 let you have the chance to pass 5C when partner has 0 key cards


0

#9 User is offline   Gerben47 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 428
  • Joined: 2003-October-27

Posted 2003-November-14, 08:58

I use 1430, unless the ace asking bid is one below 5 of the asked suit. (I.e. 4NT for clubs, or 5D as exclusion for hearts).

So you're not forced to 6 if partner turns out to have no aces.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
0

#10 User is offline   mikestar 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 913
  • Joined: 2003-August-18
  • Location:California, USA

Posted 2003-November-14, 16:01

If your are using something as complex as RKCB, you should be using Kickback:

If spades are agreed then 4NT is RKCB;
if hearts are agreed then 4SP is RKCB;
if diamonds, then 4HE;
if clubs, then 4DI;

If the agreed suit is not spades, 4NT substitutes for whatever the RKCB bid would have been: Qbid, splinter, Exclusion RKCB with void in the suit, etc.

This method makes sure you have the same bidding room for all suits--and makes the choice between 1430 and 0314 irrelevant.
0

#11 User is offline   Cascade 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Yellows
  • Posts: 6,745
  • Joined: 2003-July-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Juggling, Unicycling

Posted 2003-November-14, 17:11

Quote

If your are using something as complex as RKCB, you should be using Kickback:

If spades are agreed then 4NT is RKCB;
if hearts are agreed then 4SP is RKCB;
if diamonds, then 4HE;
if clubs, then 4DI;

If the agreed suit is not spades, 4NT substitutes for whatever the RKCB bid would have been: Qbid, splinter, Exclusion RKCB with void in the suit, etc.

This method makes sure you have the same bidding room for all suits--and makes the choice between 1430 and 0314 irrelevant.


I have not used Blackwood more often or more successfully since switching to kickback rkc.

The only difficulty with kickback is ensuring which suit has been agreed when two suits have been bid.

e.g.

1H 2D
3D 4H Is this kickback for diamonds or jump preference for hearts?

There are many similar sequences that need to be sorted.

Wayne
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

#12 User is offline   the hog 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,614
  • Joined: 2003-March-07
  • Location:Laos
  • Interests:Wagner and Bridge

Posted 2003-November-17, 23:24

1H 2D
3D 4H Is this kickback for diamonds or jump preference for hearts?


Surely 4D is kickback for D over 3D, 4C/S cues for H and 4N KC for H?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
0

#13 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,230
  • Joined: 2003-December-17
  • Location:Ohio
  • Interests:Sailing, cooking, bonsaitrees.

Posted 2003-December-18, 13:43

Personally I don't think it matters which one y play. As long as y play Minorwood, in which 4 of a minor is RKC for that minor, y will never get in trouble since 4 NT is then only RKC for the majors, and y don't have to be afraid of bypassing the save level of a minor suit contract. ;D[pre][/pre][shadow=red,left][/shadow]
If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.
0

#14 User is offline   luke warm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,951
  • Joined: 2003-September-07
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bridge, poker, politics

Posted 2003-December-23, 19:06

Quote

1H 2D
3D 4H Is this kickback for diamonds or jump preference for hearts?


Surely 4D is kickback for D over 3D, 4C/S cues for H and 4N KC for H?


playing kickback, 4H in the sequence shown is rkc for diamonds, which is why some play minorwood instead..
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
0

#15 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,230
  • Joined: 2003-December-17
  • Location:Ohio
  • Interests:Sailing, cooking, bonsaitrees.

Posted 2003-December-23, 19:24

Quote

Quote

1H 2D
3D 4H Is this kickback for diamonds or jump preference for hearts?


Surely 4D is kickback for D over 3D, 4C/S cues for H and 4N KC for H?


playing kickback, 4H in the sequence shown is rkc for diamonds, which is why some play minorwood instead..

My sentiment exactly, Kickback get's to confusing. I have decided after playing against some people for a few times that played kickback and always got to wrong slam I better not play Kickback.

Mike ;D
If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users