Help
Just need a quick answer to a basic card combination problem. I need to make sure I'm still sane.
What is the correct play with Axxx opposite J9xx when you can only lose 1 trump?
KQT are all out, but you hold all the other important spot cards.
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Basic card combination quick question
#2
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Posted 2006-May-06, 00:52
Given you have the 8 as well somewhere, and have communication between hands:
Start by underleading the Ace toward J9, and just cover 2nd hand (or play low if high honour appears).
Case 1: second hand plays spot card on first round.
Assume that the 9 flushes out one of KQ (required, else you have 2 losers)
Next run the J hoping to pin Tx original doubleton.
Case 2: second hand plays T, covered by J and Honour.
Same line - straight finesse for second honour.
Case 3: second hand rises with high honour in front of J:
Next cash Ace hoping to drop other high honour.
Overall success rate 13%
HTH
Start by underleading the Ace toward J9, and just cover 2nd hand (or play low if high honour appears).
Case 1: second hand plays spot card on first round.
Assume that the 9 flushes out one of KQ (required, else you have 2 losers)
Next run the J hoping to pin Tx original doubleton.
Case 2: second hand plays T, covered by J and Honour.
Same line - straight finesse for second honour.
Case 3: second hand rises with high honour in front of J:
Next cash Ace hoping to drop other high honour.
Overall success rate 13%
HTH
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
str-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#3
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Posted 2006-May-06, 01:27
Isn't this called intra-finesse?
Michael Sun
#4
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Posted 2006-May-06, 01:50
cnszsun, on May 6 2006, 02:27 AM, said:
Isn't this called intra-finesse?
Ooh, this yeiled some great results in google. Thanks to both of you for the help - much appreciated.
#5
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Posted 2006-May-06, 12:26
maybe jack is right, but it seems to me that you can't make 3 tricks unless you lead the ace first, to cater to K,Q in one hand... but i could easily be wrong, and have no clue as to the percentages
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#6
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Posted 2006-May-06, 12:29
Without the 8, you need a honour stiff, and QTxx in front of you J9xx. Play is A, followed by low to the 9. This also works against an opponent who plays the Q in round 2 with Qxx 
With the 8, you can do an intra finesse.
With the 8, you can do an intra finesse.
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#7
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Posted 2006-May-06, 20:06
Can't you also do it if either opponent has KQ doubleton?
#8
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Posted 2006-May-06, 22:09
oops,
isn't this a low to the 9 situation? Then lead jack from dummy/ pin the ten?
picks up stiff 10 and Honor-Ten on your left. I must be wrong because I am very poor with these types of situations.
DHL
isn't this a low to the 9 situation? Then lead jack from dummy/ pin the ten?
picks up stiff 10 and Honor-Ten on your left. I must be wrong because I am very poor with these types of situations.
DHL
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#9
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Posted 2006-May-07, 01:43
You need both the 8 and the 7 before the intrafinesse becomes better than simply laying down the ace, according to suitplay.
If you have the spots for the intrafinesse, you pick up T and Tx on your left, but you aren't really supposed to pick up honor T on your left because a good defender is supposed to follow with the T from KT or QT, and play T from Tx. Against an average/poor defender, you have a problem if lefty plays the K or Q, did he have KQ doubleton, or play it from honor T?
If you have the spots for the intrafinesse, you pick up T and Tx on your left, but you aren't really supposed to pick up honor T on your left because a good defender is supposed to follow with the T from KT or QT, and play T from Tx. Against an average/poor defender, you have a problem if lefty plays the K or Q, did he have KQ doubleton, or play it from honor T?
#10
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Posted 2006-May-07, 09:14
Stephen Tu, on May 7 2006, 02:43 AM, said:
but you aren't really supposed to pick up honor T on your left because a good defender is supposed to follow with the T from KT or QT, and play T from Tx. Against an average/poor defender, you have a problem if lefty plays the K or Q, did he have KQ doubleton, or play it from honor T?
Good and interesting point. The play of the ten gives declarer a potential losing option whereas playing the honor from honor-10 doesn't (assuming possession of interior spots).
Thanx for pointing this out!
DHL
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#11
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Posted 2006-May-07, 15:54
It appears to me that starting small towards the 9 and then playing as One Eye suggests, versus playing ace first and then small toward the 9 are very very close. You do need the proper spots for the first to work (the poster stipulated you have the spots but it is ok to consider when you don't). The first line works proving lho holds Tx,Ty, stiff T, or KQ tight. It is the stiff ten that requires some spots: The 8 is not enough. A86z is enough.
With 32 ways to arrange 5 cards, and four of those ways desirable, the percentage is apporximately 12.5%. Since three of the desired ways involve 3-2 splits this bumps it up a bit to I suppose about 13%.
Playing A then small succeeds if either opponent holds KQ tight, or if rho holds either stiff K or stiff Q. Also four ways so also about 12.5% but this time it is two 3-2s and two 4-1s, so it is slightly inferior.
As to what one should do in practice, it certainly depends on the opponents. For example, if lho can be depended upon to play the ten from QT or KT, but not from T2 or T3, then you can do better. So the full set of plays recommended by Stephen Tu is needed. Against players who adopt them, I doubt you can do better than the 13%. It would be a pretty tough game, I think. I doubt it would occur to me to get the ten out of my hand from T2 if declarer led towards J9xx.
With 32 ways to arrange 5 cards, and four of those ways desirable, the percentage is apporximately 12.5%. Since three of the desired ways involve 3-2 splits this bumps it up a bit to I suppose about 13%.
Playing A then small succeeds if either opponent holds KQ tight, or if rho holds either stiff K or stiff Q. Also four ways so also about 12.5% but this time it is two 3-2s and two 4-1s, so it is slightly inferior.
As to what one should do in practice, it certainly depends on the opponents. For example, if lho can be depended upon to play the ten from QT or KT, but not from T2 or T3, then you can do better. So the full set of plays recommended by Stephen Tu is needed. Against players who adopt them, I doubt you can do better than the 13%. It would be a pretty tough game, I think. I doubt it would occur to me to get the ten out of my hand from T2 if declarer led towards J9xx.
Ken
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