[joshs]

My partner and I stumbled into slam last night, on an unconvincing auction, on the following card combination:

KJx xx xx AQJxxx
AQxxx K9xx Axx K

Our Auction:
2C(10-14ish, 6+C)-2D(relay)-2S(no major, a legit opener, singleton somewhere or 7222)-2N(relay)-3N(7222)-4D(rkc)-4H(1/4)-[x]-4S(Q ask)-4N(yes and S K)-6C

I sort of expected Kx xx Kx AQxxxxx.

Anyway, who has a suggested auction in their favorite methods, which is convincing? This is also hard playing natural methods...

In TOSR, I at least come reasonable close:
2C(6+C, 10-14, no side suit)-2H(GFing Relay)-3C(3226 or 2227)-3D(Which?)-3S(3226, min, A mild underbid?)-4S(Mild Slam Try, Overbid?)-5D(I like my hand, 2 key cards, no trump Q)-6S

but since I don't know about the C Q and J, I can't count the 12 tricks in the acution.

[mghmaine]

Seems not to hard in not very sophisticated natural methods
2C-2D,3C-3S,4C*-4NT, 5H*-6S

In the above, 3C is natural and denies 4-card M. 3M is natural. 4C, in our style, is a cue in support of Ss. An opener without Ss would have to bid 3NT so as not to punish partner for trying for a 5-3 fit. 5H is 2KC without.

[joshs]

mghmaine, on Feb 24 2006, 06:09 PM, said:

Seems not to hard in not very sophisticated natural methods
2C-2D,3C-3S,4C*-4NT, 5H*-6S

In the above, 3C is natural and denies 4-card M. 3M is natural. 4C, in our style, is a cue in support of Ss. An opener without Ss would have to bid 3NT so as not to punish partner for trying for a 5-3 fit. 5H is 2KC without.

Well, I am not completely convinced.

Your sequence is a reasonable start (after showing a min, opener can afford to cue-bid, assuming that 4C is really a cue-bid), but I can hardly say that when 6S was bid in your sequence that I knew:
a. We belonged in slam
b. This is better than 6C


Also what would south do over 3N by north? He is still guessing about whether or not there is a club slam, although I would probably give up after opener showed a min and no spade fit, since he might have a stiff spade. Of course if he has Kx x xxx AQJxxxx 3N might be going down while we have a cold club slam....

[glen]

joshs, on Feb 24 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

KJx xx xx AQJxxx
<> no major, a legit opener, singleton somewhere or 7222

What was correct rebid?

[awm]

Correct rebid was 2NT, showing a (223)6 pattern and maximum, or perhaps 3♣ (any min). My reasoning for the 2♠ bid was:

(1) My clubs are really good, so I don't want to show a min when we can make 3NT opposite many invites.
(2) I really don't want to be declarer in 3NT, with both reds wide open, so I will let partner bid it.
(3) If partner thinks I have 7 clubs, well, at least my club spots are really good.

[glen]

awm, on Feb 25 2006, 01:25 AM, said:

Correct rebid was 2NT, showing a (223)6 pattern and maximum

Over 2NT, partner should be able to bid 3♠ natural and forcing. Now opener's hand raises to 4♠ - also opener should advance cuebid ♦s or ♥s on the way to 4♠ with a good red suit value, so the bid of 4♠ implies a fair bit of stuff is in ♣s and ♠s. Responder should bid 4NT RKCB, and then play opener for a working Kxx xx xx AQxxxx and hope that opener also has one or both of the black jacks, or that something nice happens, such as ♣s and ♠s both spliting.

[awm]

Sam and my structure tends to have a fair bit of room for judgement, so I can't necessarily predict the auction. However, there are some fairly convincing possibilities:

2♣ (1) - 2♦ (2) - 3♣ (3) - 3♠ (4) - 4♠ (5) - 4NT (6) - 5♥ (7) - 6♠

Here: (1) 10-14 hcp 6+♣ (2) 4+♥; either inv+ or weak with 6+♥ (3) very good clubs, normally a one-loser suit although there is some leeway if holding a heart void, also implies at most one pointy stopper and minimum values (4) natural, 5+♠, maybe longer ♠ than ♥ (5) agrees ♠, failure to cuebid a red suit normally denies a control there but responder's 3NT or 4♣ would have been natural (6) 1430 keycard in ♠ (7) two without the queen

Opener pretty much knows responder's hand here. Of course the 3♣ call by opener was somewhat optional, and with doubleton heart it may be reasonable to accept the transfer. Then we get:

2♣ (1) - 2♦ (2) - 2♥ (3) - 2♠ (4) - 3♠ (5) - 4♦ (6) - 5♣ (7) - 6♠ (8)

(1) 10-14 hcp 6+♣ (2) 4+♥ (3) normal accept of transfer, denies 4♥, tends to deny 3♥ (4) 4+♠ and 4+♥ (5) 3♠, maximum, denies 3♥, denies a diamond stopper (6) diamond control, note that 3NT/4♣ would be natural here (7) club cuebid denies a heart control but must show a good hand for slam even in context of max values (else 4♠) (8) very strong clubs and a spade card are a virtual must for this bidding

[joshs]

Yeah I could have bid 3S natural and forcing. I expected that either:
Partner had 7 clubs, and then I wanted to play in clubs, or partner had a singleton and I could show spades after partner shows a stiff diamond (pig suey) or hearts, and just bid 3N if he showed a stiff spade. Adam double crossed me by choosing this sequence with this shape.

In anycase the main theme here is that I have a hand type that is interested in 4 different strains, and is not sure about level. I need to know suit quality (for clubs) and a location of singleton for everything. And I have 1 level less to exchange info than natural bidders, so the question is, what is the best use of the space....

[keylime]

KJx xx xx AQJxxx
AQxxx K9xx Axx K

I'd probably bid it this way:

2C - 2S
3S - 3NT(slam try)
4C - 4D
4S - 4NT
5H - 6S

I normally use Cohen-Berkowitz responses.

[awm]

It seems like a lot of these auctions aren't really confirming the quality of the club suit. It seems to me that this slam isn't so great without the ♣T. The suggestion seems to be that "since opener couldn't cuebid a red suit, he must have really good clubs." Aren't either of the following 2♣ openers:

KJx
Qx
Qx
AJxxxx

KJx
QJ
xx
AQxxxx

And would you really bid NT rather than raise spades with:

Kx
xxx
xx
AQJxxx

I guess I'm just not convinced by a lot of the constructions people have put forward.

[Gerben42]

My Precision variant (basically same opening bid: 2♣ = 10 - 14, 6+♣)

2♣ 2♦
2NT 3♠
4♠ 4NT
5♥ 5/6♠

2NT = No shortness, denies solid suit
3♠ = GF 5+♠
4♠ = 3♠ (must be 3226 then)
4NT = RKC
5♥ = 2 without ♠Q

Now you either guess partner's ♣ are good or not.

[glen]

awm, on Mar 7 2006, 06:53 AM, said:

It seems like a lot of these auctions aren't really confirming the quality of the club suit. It seems to me that this slam isn't so great without the ♣T. The suggestion seems to be that "since opener couldn't cuebid a red suit, he must have really good clubs." Aren't either of the following 2♣ openers:

KJx
Qx
Qx
AJxxxx

KJx
QJ
xx
AQxxxx

And would you really bid NT rather than raise spades with:

Kx
xxx
xx
AQJxxx

I guess I'm just not convinced by a lot of the constructions people have put forward.

In the suggested auction, it was based on 2NT showing a max 6-3-2-2, so the last hand doesn't apply. The first two do, and one should read: "hope that opener also has one or both of the black jacks, or that something nice happens, such as ♣s and ♠s both spliting" - that is the ♠J is important in providing another entry to dummy hopefully to set up ♣s. Also note that 6♣ on the second hand is a pretty reasonable contract - love to be there if ♠s 3-2 and ♣s at worst 4-2, or if get a black suit lead. On the first some good stuff might happen including black suits both split, or ♣Q doubleton or ♦ lead and Q wins, or ♥ ace lead, etc.

Sure, there is no bullet proof way to get to all the good slams and avoid all the poor ones. However if the partnership employs two-suited RKCB after the suggested auction, responder could find out if opener is missing a key card and both black queens - that is missing the ♣ queen, and the ♥ ace or the ♠ king.

[Echognome]

awm, on Mar 7 2006, 06:53 AM, said:

It seems like a lot of these auctions aren't really confirming the quality of the club suit. It seems to me that this slam isn't so great without the ♣T. The suggestion seems to be that "since opener couldn't cuebid a red suit, he must have really good clubs." Aren't either of the following 2♣ openers:

KJx
Qx
Qx
AJxxxx

KJx
QJ
xx
AQxxxx

And would you really bid NT rather than raise spades with:

Kx
xxx
xx
AQJxxx

I guess I'm just not convinced by a lot of the constructions people have put forward.

I haven't put forth an auction yet, but I can say that the first hand is definitely a 1NT opener for me. All my points are in my short suits.

Second hand is close between 1NT and 2♣. I guess it would depend on how I feel on the day.

Third hand is definitely a minimum 2♣ opener.

We play relays over 2♦, but with the given responder's hand I would start with 2♠ which is natural and forcing. Then it is simply a matter of good judgment from there. I can't say I'd reach slam for certain.

[joshs]

keylime, on Mar 7 2006, 01:13 AM, said:

KJx xx xx AQJxxx
AQxxx K9xx Axx K

I'd probably bid it this way:

2C - 2S
3S - 3NT(slam try)
4C - 4D
4S - 4NT
5H - 6S

I normally use Cohen-Berkowitz responses.

I normally use cohen-berk also (I like having a forcing 2M bid) but wasn't certain at the table with a non-regular partner if 2S was forcing (its pretty non-standard in precision). We didn't have much time to discuss all the details of our fancy club system and I was not sure how much of my notes we were actually playing...

Its also not clear what to do next after 2C-2S-3C-3H-3S (not what would happen here).

[keylime]

Maybe, a serious 3NT try?

[joshs]

2C-2S-3C-3H-3S-3N has to be natural, and is probably the correct bid... Partner will almost always pass, but not always.