[Flame]

I must say i love it, its clean and clear, every bid is in it's place.
Still i have one thing that confiuse me and maybe someone here (maybe daniel or josh) can clear this up for me.
On some of the relay there is no direct 5-5 bid, and the way to show 5-5 with clubs is true the 5+M4+C, on others there is a direct 5-5 and therfore the club bid is with exactly 4C. I wonder if this has some logic beyond it ?
examples
1H-1S
2D show exactly 4C

while
1H-1S
1NT-2C
2S show 4+C

over 1D opening its always 4+C
1D-1H
2D
and
1D-1H
1S-2C
2S

I guess this could be for space ressons, like we dont want to bid the reverser too high, but wanted to know for sure its not just a mistake.

[joshs]

Flame, on Mar 9 2006, 11:27 AM, said:

I must say i love it, its clean and clear, every bid is in it's place.
Still i have one thing that confiuse me and maybe someone here (maybe daniel or josh) can clear this up for me.
On some of the relay there is no direct 5-5 bid, and the way to show 5-5 with clubs is true the 5+M4+C, on others there is a direct 5-5 and therfore the club bid is with exactly 4C. I wonder if this has some logic beyond it ?
examples
1H-1S
2D show exactly 4C

while
1H-1S
1NT-2C
2S show 4+C

over 1D opening its always 4+C
1D-1H
2D
and
1D-1H
1S-2C
2S

I guess this could be for space ressons, like we dont want to bid the reverser too high, but wanted to know for sure its not just a mistake.

I think you either misunderstood something or there was a typo somewhere in the notes you were reading:

1H (4+S)-1S(ART, Good Hand)- 2D(5+S, 4+ C, sound opener)
Over the 2H relay, 2S would then show 5+S and 5+C.

The main point of symmetric relay is that the same "residue" sequences always show the same hand pattern, so no matter how the auction started (unless there is a shift in the steps do to interference or a negative), if you show a major, then 2D and then 2S you always have a 5 card major and 5 clubs.

In 2 suited auctions (again, if there is no shift do to interference or a negative response to the first relay):
2H always shows 4 cards in the higher suit and 5 in the lower (and shows 5+C if you hadn't designated what the lower was already, and 4D if you hadn't shown the higher suit either)
2S always shows a 5-5 hand
2N always shows a singleton/void in the higher of the other 2 suits
3C always shows a 5422 hand
3D always shows a 5431 hand
3H always shows a 6421 hand
etc.

this is what makes the system easy.

[DJNeill]

Hi Flame,

I haven't checked the website notes but this is how it should be:

1D-1H(relay)-1S(minimum)-2C(GF relay)-
2D = spades
2H = diamonds
2S = clubs, non-reverser (so 5+H-4C, or 5-5)
2N = relay
3C = 5-5
3D = 5+H-4C hi short
3H = 5H-4C-2-2
3S+ = 5+H-4C lo short
2N = clubs, reverser (4H-5+C)
3C = hearts 1-suiter, high-shortage

this is all normal + 2 steps.

If opener hasn't a minimum, there isn't the +2 cost anymore.

1D-1H(relay)-
1N = spades (max)
2C = diamonds (max)
2D = clubs (non-reverser, max)
2H = clubs (reverser, max)

After 1H and a minimum: 1H-1S-1N(min)-2C(relay)
2D = diamonds
2H = clubs, non-reverser....

so it is +1 steps here.

After 1H and a maximum: 1H-1S-
2C = diamonds
...

we are back to no-cost.

So I guess minimum = +1 or +2 cost. Maximum = no cost. Solution: upgrade all hands to maximum.

Thanks,
Dan

[Flame]

Thanks guys
So i understand its a mistake in the text on daniel's site.