[fbuijsen]

[quote name='mikeh' date='Feb 16 2006, 05:32 PM'] [quote name='42' date='Feb 16 2006, 05:16 PM']This discussion is very useful!
Nobody here would dbl instead of bidding 2[cl] with the S hand? One of my friends would and in his opinion the bidding would go on:
pass pass 1[he] dbl
pass 2[cl] pass 2[he]
pass 2NT pass 3[sp]
pass 5[cl] end.
Since 2[cl] shows 11 to ...hm 17 bad (??): is the 3[cl] raise an invitation or just a bid to make life harder for opener? All are red. [/QUOTE]
Your hand is a maximum 2C overcall to me. It would be a dbl, but the poor quality of the club suit makes me decide for an overcall.

Your friend's auction is a fine case of resulting with both hands in sight.
Double is acceptabel, and you would get something like (after the dbl):
2[cl] 2[he]
2NT 3NT

after that.

I play the 3[cl] raise as a positive bid, roughly 7-10 HCP and at least 3 clubs.
On the N hand here, 3[cl] is a bit tame, but OK.

[han]

The hand is heavy for 2C, but I would certainly not double. Double followed by an overcall shows a significantly stronger hand for me.

3C is not invitational, with a true invitation you can cuebid.

I think that most bridge players would not think too much and just bid 3NT over 3C. I might have done the same.. hard to say now.. but after reading this thread it is entirely clear why 3NT is wrong. As usual it is best to turn the automatic pilot off and try to visualise possible hands for partner.

BTW 3NT doesn't send much of a message in this auction besides "I think that we should play here". Partner is not expected to pull this unless she has a very unusual hand. Most bids show something about your hand and ask for input from partner. 3NT usually doesn't.

[cherdano]

42, on Feb 17 2006, 12:16 AM, said:

This discussion is very useful!
Nobody here would dbl instead of bidding 2♣ with the S hand? One of my friends would

I am not surprised In my never-ending quest to find out differences American and German bidding, one of the few things I believe to have found out that Germans still believe in doubling rather than bidding their suit with one-suited 17-18 hcp hands.

It is a style issue, and I am pretty certain no American expert would even consider a double, while perhaps many in Germany would. It's a style issue of course, and I won't take a stab at making a claim which style is better.

Having said that, I don't understand the double here. This is a bad 17 hcp hand, and the overcall would be vulnerable at IMPs at the 2-level, which already shows a decent hand.

Arend

[han]

fbuijsen, on Feb 16 2006, 05:41 PM, said:

Your friend's auction is a fine case of resulting with both hands in sight.
Double is acceptabel, and you would get something like (after the dbl):
2♣ 2♥
2NT 3NT

after that.

This auction is almost as bad as 42's friend's auction. 6-card club support.. isn't that worth showing?

Although I really don't like the initial double, a possible auction could be:

(1H) - Dbl - 2C
4C - 5C

Double followed by a cuebid is a gros overbid, and tells partner nothing about the club support.

[mike777]

Heck if you cannot bid 4c with the North hand ...how about...pass ......

[han]

It is a style issue, and I am pretty certain no American expert would even consider a double, while perhaps many in Germany would. It's a style issue of course, and I won't take a stab at making a claim which style is better.

Oh yes you would Arend, although perhaps not here.