[42]

Hi!
This hand was no success, one must be in 5♣. How would 2 experts bid? A ♥-cuebid leads to the same disaster, which leaves 3♦ and 3♠, or?
I am thankful for arguments!

Scoring: IMP

bidding:
pass pass 1♥ 2♣
pass 3♣ pass 3NT

---

Caren

[cherdano]

I would put the blame on partner: I overcall 2♣, partner raises to 3♣, I bid 3♥ (don't like 3N so much, even if clubs run we may have only 8 top tricks, and after careful investigation I still haven't found a positional values in my hand), partner will bid 3N. Now I can pass and it's his/her fault

Joking aside, I think this would be my sequence. Tough for either side to know you are lacking the club ace (and hey, RHO may lead a heart!).

Arend

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I dont like the 3NT bid with the single
Ace of diamond, and I think 3H instead
of 3NT is better, because 3NT gambles on
9 running tricks, which implies partner
has a 2nd fast trick besides the Ace of
clubs.
3H will ensure that you have time to develop
another trick.

But then 3NT goes down because they have
the Ace of clubs, and this seems a bit unlucky
when holding 11 clubs.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[fbuijsen]

I think the 2C overcaller takes the blame. You can see in your hand that you probably need 9 running tricks to make 3NT, or otherwise the defenders will run their suit when in with a club.
This means that the 3NT bidder is gambling on partner having the ♣A and ♣K, or the opponents are making the wrong lead. That seems a bit too hopeful.

[42]

cherdano, on Feb 16 2006, 04:28 PM, said:

and hey, RHO may lead a heart!

Still only 8 tricks: 5♣s, 2♥s, 1♦. We are 1 tempo behind

[42]

fbuijsen, on Feb 16 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

I think the 2C overcaller takes the blame. You can see in your hand that you probably need 9 running tricks to make 3NT, or otherwise the defenders will run their suit when in with a club.
This means that the 3NT bidder is gambling on partner having the ♣A and ♣K, or the opponents are making the wrong lead. That seems a bit too hopeful.

Ok, thx So what would be YOUR bid after 3♣ and why?

[cherdano]

Jlall, on Feb 16 2006, 05:52 PM, said:

If south bids 3H north will just bid 3N.

Yes, but still 3♥ looks like the better bid.

[cherdano]

42, on Feb 16 2006, 05:47 PM, said:

cherdano, on Feb 16 2006, 04:28 PM, said:

and hey, RHO may lead a heart!

Still only 8 tricks: 5♣s, 2♥s, 1♦. We are 1 tempo behind

Well, I knew I couldn't count

[42]

cherdano, on Feb 16 2006, 05:22 PM, said:

42, on Feb 16 2006, 05:47 PM, said:

cherdano, on Feb 16 2006, 04:28 PM, said:

and hey, RHO may lead a heart!

Still only 8 tricks: 5♣s, 2♥s, 1♦. We are 1 tempo behind

Well, I knew I couldn't count

Normal for a good mathematician (I know a lot of them ), so don't worry! And if you must have had to count to 13 (higher mathematics), you would have been successful, I am sure! ♥

[joker_gib]

I'd have bid 3♥ and pass over 3NT by partner

Alain

[mike777]

I am surprised no one considered bidding 4clubs, weak, over 2club overcall.

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on Feb 16 2006, 12:09 PM, said:

I am surprised no one considered bidding 4clubs, weak, over 2club overcall.

There is no reason to preempt, because openers partner
passed. ... And you know it cant be a trap pass,
so he is weak.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

I think that S showed poor judgment here. 3N was silly: there is no hand with which 3N, by him, rates to make, given that partner merely raised ♣. Give him AK♣ and S still needs him to hold the ♠A or the ♦K or an unlikely ♥ holding: the odds are very high that he would have bid 2♥ rather than 3♣.

So what is S to do? He must bid, and I think that 3♥ is the logical call.

Over to North: He almost has to bid 3N. Give his partner the same values (or a little more) with AJ of♣ and Kxx of ♠ and 3N is fine.

So 3N by North.

Now back to S. He has heard an unexpected call from partner: partner has a ♥ stopper as well as a ♣ fit. Here the problem is that S could well logically play N to hold shorter ♣ and something useful in ♦: say xxx Kx Q10xx Kxxx, and now 3N is okay.

That hand, of course, is equally good for 5♣, but what about: xx Q10x Kxxx Kxxx? Admittedly a careful construction but 5♣ is hopeless on a ♥ lead while 3N has a very good play.

So I think that 3N is a reasonable contract, outside of a bidding contest, and you just shrug and call for the next board.

[hotShot]

Looking at the south hand only, there are 5 looser (2♣ , 2♥ and 1♠) and south needs to exit 3 times (♠ and 2♣) to develope the ♣ and ♠ tricks.
To make 3NT, the number of stoppers in the lead suit is: number of exits + 1, if opps lead the weak suit, and follow it each time they are at trick.
In this case south needs north to reduce the number of exits. Since the weakest suit is ♦, with ony one stopper, the number of exits must be reduced to 0. This is only possible if north hold AK♣ or A and the K is with west or single with east.
Otherwise north needs to bring a stopper in ♦ and ♥ and K♣.
So the chances for making 3NT are too small, to bid it as north needs to have maximun and the right cards.

How to bid over 3♣? Well pass is an option, otherwise it is 3♥ of cause followed by 3NT from north.
Now south knows that they have 2 stopper in ♥, ♠ and ♦, if playing ♣. So if north has one of ♣AK there is a good chance to make 5.

[fbuijsen]

42, on Feb 16 2006, 10:51 AM, said:

fbuijsen, on Feb 16 2006, 04:32 PM, said:

I think the 2C overcaller takes the blame. You can see in your hand that you probably need 9 running tricks to make 3NT, or otherwise the defenders will run their suit when in with a club.
This means that the 3NT bidder is gambling on partner having the ♣A and ♣K, or the opponents are making the wrong lead. That seems a bit too hopeful.

Ok, thx So what would be YOUR bid after 3♣ and why?

It's hard to say, because seeing both hands it quickly becomes just resulting.
But since my hand is a total maximum, I even have visions of slam, and have sufficient faith in 5♣. I expect at least one club honor with partner.

I think I'd try a 4♦ cuebid. I guess partner would bid 5♣ or 4♥ on that.
Over 4♥ I'd bid 5♣, hoping that makes it clear to partner I need the ♠A.

But it's much easier seeing both hands

[42]

This discussion is very useful!
Nobody here would dbl instead of bidding 2♣ with the S hand? One of my friends would and in his opinion the bidding would go on:
pass pass 1♥ dbl
pass 2♣ pass 2♥
pass 2NT pass 3♠
pass 5♣ end.
Since 2♣ shows 11 to ...hm 17 bad (??): is the 3♣ raise an invitation or just a bid to make life harder for opener? All are red.
By the way: I was silly S. I must admit that I sometimes bid according to my feeling (please don't flame me for that! I still have partners that I don't pay ) In this case I must also admit that I didn't think until the bitter end: which honours exactly does partner really need to have that we succeed in 3NT. This imagination is a tough problem for me.
Perhaps I was hoping to transmit the message: I have a maximum overcall with stoppers everywhere, are your clubs fine? Or so... I will ask my psychiatrist. Perhaps he has also a recipe (or pills) how I can get rid of wishful thinking....

[mikeh]

42, on Feb 16 2006, 05:16 PM, said:

This discussion is very useful!
Nobody here would dbl instead of bidding 2♣ with the S hand? One of my friends would and in his opinion the bidding would go on:
pass pass 1♥ dbl
pass 2♣ pass 2♥
pass 2NT pass 3♠
pass 5♣ end.
Since 2♣ shows 11 to ...hm 17 bad (??): is the 3♣ raise an invitation or just a bid to make life harder for opener? All are red.
By the way: I was silly S. I must admit that I sometimes bid according to my feeling (please don't flame me for that! I still have partners that I don't pay ) In this case I must also admit that I didn't think until the bitter end: which honours exactly does partner really need to have that we succeed in 3NT. This imagination is a tough problem for me.
Perhaps I was hoping to transmit the message: I have a maximum overcall with stoppers everywhere, are your clubs fine? Or so... I will ask my psychiatrist. Perhaps he has also a recipe (or pills) how I can get rid of wishful thinking....

Your friend's auction is absurd: you have him doubling, cue-bidding and then bidding 3♠. As far as I am concerned, that shows the equivalent of a (good) strong 2♣ opening bid based on a great ♠ suit: remember that the 2♣ response to the double could be on xxx xxx xxx xxxx (or if you bid 1♠ with that, xx xxxx xxx xxxx), so 2♥ is a force (2♠ would not be) and then you show your forcing 3♠ bid.