[mr1303]

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Playing Acol, the bidding was:

1S (4 card majors) 2D (Acol style)
3NT (18-19 bal) 4NT (nat inv)
6D all pass

As you can see, this needed the double spade finesse to make, which unsurprisingly wasn't right. Who's fault was it?

[whereagles]

The system, which was unable to discover the mirrored shapes

[han]

3NT suffers from two flaws: (1) it is an overbid, (2) it doesn't show the diamond support.

I don't know whether you could have done any better, a bit unlucky.

[P_Marlowe]

Responders fault, he did bid the slam on mass,
(else why did he bid 4NT?), altough he did know
that at best there were 32 HCP around, simple
arethmetic.

He did not know about the diamond fit.

Marlowe

[Robert]

Hello mr1303

All of the bidding was decent. No glaring errors at all.

The hands just did not fit. There was duplication in several suits.

Move some of the cards or minor changes in the shape would result in 12 winners.

The Jacks in both diamonds and clubs did nothing to help win tricks.

Trade in the Jacks in diamonds and clubs plus the heart Queen for the exact same 4HCP in spades and you would be asking why you missed a lay down 6NT.

If this is the worst contract that you have ever been in, you are either really good or very lucky.

I play a slam bidding method that asks for control total and checks for suit fits. I include a warning that holding minimum HCPs the presense of even one Jack is a warning sign. That North hand held two jacks so that might have suggested signing off.

Regards,
Robert

[Fluffy]

Both overbid, North overbid the most, he had a clear 5♦ bid.

[dogsbreath]

Hi
I think a little unlucky .. but i dont evaluate that KQ doubleton as making the 3nt rebid by yr methods
Rgds Dog

[EricK]

South's invitation was a little bit too light. By the same token, North is minimum for his bidding to date - only 18 HCP and 5 of them in a doubleton.

On the other hand, this is very close to being a good slam (Just give south ♠Jxx or ♠xx ♥Jxx and suddenly slam is 50%. Similarly you coul give North ♠AQJT or ♥KQJ ♣Kx with the same effect). Playing a natural system it is very difficult to diagnose these fitting Jacks.

Eric

[HeartA]

All the biddings are OK. Maybe North orverbid a little as Fluffy pointed out.

With South's hand, I would never passed out 3NT after North told a hand of 18-19 balanced.

[Cascade]

North overbid.

1. He showed 18-19 with 17 hcp - all he has extra is a diamond fit but this bid did not show that.

2. He accepted a quantitative raise with a sub-minimum hand.

3. 4 controls (slam cards) is poor for 17 hcp hand. It is even worse for an 18-19 hcp. Notice how much better slam would be if North had just ♠K in place of ♥Q and ♣J but then 6NT would be the better slam.

Edited: Whoops I can't count :-( Not sure now what I missed before.

[Fluffy]

Nice to see you posting again Wayne!

BTW:try to count again these hand, I did, and I count 18 everytime

[Flame]

I dont like the bidding since the diamond fit wasnt found on time, and south didnt know about it when he bid 4NT, but i dont think reaching slam here is a your problem, just bad luck to have your values badly placed.

[Al_U_Card]

Very tempting to bid the slam but that HKQ dbltn would make me refuse the slam invitation.

[mr1303]

I actually think North had a tricky call on his second bid. 3D here would not be forcing, so that leaves:

2NT forcing, but partner will evaluate in the context of 15-17 balanced, not 18-19
4D absolutely revolting.
3C equally revolting.
3NT 18-19 balanced. Admittedly this doesn't get the diamond support across, but then it's more often than not the most likely game.

[P_Marlowe]

mr1303, on Nov 22 2005, 07:30 AM, said:

I actually think North had a tricky call on his second bid. 3D here would not be forcing, so that leaves:

2NT forcing, but partner will evaluate in the context of 15-17 balanced, not 18-19
4D absolutely revolting.
3C equally revolting.
3NT 18-19 balanced. Admittedly this doesn't get the diamond support across, but then it's more often than not the most likely game.

Of course one could switch the meaning of 2NT
and 3NT, which is not standard Acol, but it certainly
makes sense.

Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

You were a bit unlucky that the hands fit so badly.
North overbid. He had a pass of 4NT in spite of the diamond support. South's 4NT was quite aggressive.

This hand type isn't catered for well in basic Acol (why is this hand in the SAYC and 2/1 discussion?). If you play your 2/1 responses as roughly 9+, as most people do, you can afford to play the 2NT rebid as 15+ balanced & game forcing (or at least forcing for a round).

[cherdano]

mr1303, on Nov 22 2005, 02:30 PM, said:

I actually think North had a tricky call on his second bid. 3D here would not be forcing, so that leaves:

2NT forcing, but partner will evaluate in the context of 15-17 balanced, not 18-19

Given the ♥KQ tight, I don't think that is a problem. If 2NT is GF, it looks perfect to me. If it is forcing one round, it still might be best.

Arend

[mr1303]

Quote

why is this hand in the SAYC and 2/1 discussion?

There's been some debate about calling this the Acol/SAYC/2over1 discussion forum, and there isn't an Acol based system (I'm not calling Acol a non-natural system!!)

[Cascade]

FrancesHinden, on Nov 23 2005, 03:56 AM, said:

This hand type isn't catered for well in basic Acol (why is this hand in the SAYC and 2/1 discussion?). If you play your 2/1 responses as roughly 9+, as most people do, you can afford to play the 2NT rebid as 15+ balanced & game forcing (or at least forcing for a round).

I like to play this style. This frees up 3NT for something else. I use it as a raise of responder's suit with no singleton and too strong for a simple raise.

1M 2m

2NT = 15+ balanced forcing

3NT = good raise of partner's minor NF

After responding 2NT sometimes you have to venture to 4NT when responder raises.

1M 2m
2NT 3NT
4NT Good 18-19

[Kalvan14]

Most of the fault is with bad luck: duplication of values and mirrored hand.
N might have overbid a bit.