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Who is to blame?

#21 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-October-22, 12:29

cherdano, on Oct 20 2005, 09:53 PM, said:

X-4NT(pick a minor)-6♣ -- or am I day-dreaming?
I like 4NT because partner's double will often be off-shape and 4NT at least makes sure we get to an 8-card fit.

.....

What would be the difference between 4NT and 4♠ ?
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#22 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-October-22, 12:39

awm, on Oct 22 2005, 02:48 AM, said:

I love playing against people who bid 3NT on hands like this!

Yes, it works great when your opponents don't preempt with outside entries, and always raise with three-card support. But since I am well-known both to preempt with outside cards and pass partner's preempt with three trumps, I get way more than my share of good results against the 3NT bidding posse.

In fact, pushing opponents into "light" 3NTs that make because of communication problems on the defense might well be a good reason not to preempt on hands without outside cards -- quite the opposite of the approach some players seem to take.

As to whether 3NT is a good bid, well, on the actual hands you will miss a slam. In general it might work well if your opponents are of the "classic" preempting style. Not my cup of tea though.

1) would you preempt with 3S KQJxxxx of spades and an outside ace? I suspect you would bid 1 (or maybe 4). If you do bid 3 with that hand, you may win when they specifically bid 3N, but you will be losing whenever you miss a game/slam because you have such a strong hand (unless partner expects such a strong hand, in which case you will lose when you preempt with less). With KQJxxxx and an outside K, it's not clear you will get in fast enough to cash your spades before the 3N bidder takes 9 tricks. With less solid spades, dummy is more likely to have the missing spade honor than your partner (because on some hands he may have raised). Or you may have just preempted with no outside cards. I assume with KQJxxxx and out you would preempt?

2) You may win when you frequently pass 3S with 3 spades and they bid 3N (although you will often break even), but you lose or break even whenever you let them make a bid that is not 3N, or whenever 3N is cold. Not furthering the preempt out of hope that they will bid 3N and have only a single stopper and not 9 top tricks seems like losing bridge

3) Yes 3N may have theoretically missed a slam, but don't forget Xing missed GAME even when the hand was actually played. Though 4D is an underbid, its not a gross underbid with xx in spades.
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#23 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-October-22, 13:07

pclayton, on Oct 22 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

In spite of what Roland says, I don't think its a 5♦ call.

Where did I say that it's a 5♦ call? Please advise.

Roland
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#24 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-October-22, 15:11

Walddk, on Oct 22 2005, 11:07 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 22 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

In spite of what Roland says, I don't think its a 5♦ call.

Where did I say that it's a 5♦ call? Please advise.

Roland

I just misread it Roland - I saw that you thought 4♦ was an underbid - and assumed that you intended 5♦ - instead of 4N.
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#25 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-October-22, 15:12

pclayton, on Oct 22 2005, 11:11 PM, said:

Walddk, on Oct 22 2005, 11:07 AM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 22 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

In spite of what Roland says, I don't think its a 5♦ call.

Where did I say that it's a 5♦ call? Please advise.

Roland

I just misread it Roland - I saw that you thought 4♦ was an underbid - and assumed that you intended 5♦ - instead of 4N.

You'd better read it again then, Phil. I did write 4NT.

Roland
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#26 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-October-23, 17:15

The balme goes to south for reopening with such junky trash many times before, now he pays for it :)
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#27 User is offline   Kalvan14 

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Posted 2005-October-24, 17:39

I prefer a 3N reopener. There are plenty of (weaker) hands in N with which 3N is a lay-down or almost so.
This said, double is a reasonable alternative, with a fit in all the unbid suits. N bid (4♦) is a bit shy: his 10 HCP are all working: I would have bid 4N for the minors, but I am not so convinced that i would bid 6♣.
Which goes to prove that, overall, 3N is the best bid at MP.
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#28 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2005-October-24, 19:35

Fluffy, on Oct 23 2005, 06:15 PM, said:

The balme goes to south for reopening with such junky trash many times before, now he pays for it :D

This is a regular but fairly new partnership so you are mistaken.

Also, I am not one of the two players, I received this hand by email.


BTW 6C goes down on a 4-1 break. I wonder how good 6C is given the spade preempt.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#29 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2005-October-25, 05:20

Hannie, on Oct 25 2005, 03:35 AM, said:

BTW 6C goes down on a 4-1 break. I wonder how good 6C is given the spade preempt.

57.77%.

Not a good bet if the other table is in 4♦..
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#30 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-October-25, 09:16

Hannie, on Oct 25 2005, 01:35 AM, said:

Fluffy, on Oct 23 2005, 06:15 PM, said:

The balme goes to south for reopening with such junky trash many times before, now he pays for it <_<

This is a regular but fairly new partnership so you are mistaken.

Also, I am not one of the two players, I received this hand by email.


BTW 6C goes down on a 4-1 break. I wonder how good 6C is given the spade preempt.

The fact the partership is new doesn't mean he doesn't know the kind of reopenings he sues to make lol.
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#31 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-October-25, 09:17

Now more seriously, the problem here is lack of agreements, strenght for direct move and reopening is a very important one for a partnership.
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