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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#7441 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 13:08

View Postjjbrr, on 2017-September-25, 12:04, said:

Kris Kobach has been sued by the ACLU 4 times for voter suppression. ACLU won all 4 cases.

He's the real fraud, here.

Yet somehow he's second in command of the commission investigating voting irregularities. Such is the world of the Trump administration: a climate denier in charge of the EPA, someone who doesn't believe in public schools as the Secretary of Education, etc.

#7442 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 13:42

View Postbarmar, on 2017-September-25, 09:33, said:

We're in Oz and he's the Wizard!

Agreed.

With his casual racist and divisive remarks, sometimes he's the Grand Wizard.

Soon enough, we will learn that the Wizard has no special powers or magic at all; he's a well meaning fraud. He's a normal insecure person (just like everyone else) and feeds his insecurities in a variety of ways. The seemingly endless faux pas and eye-rolling scandals help fuel the national ratings for our American political reality show, "The Apprentice — P.O.T.U.S. Series" starring Donald Trump.

Posted Image

Hopefully, we will see that the promise of America is never in the President but in the energies and ingenuity of her people. We look to our President to solve our Wizard of Oz like problems and put us on the yellow brick road to prosperity but he can't take that journey for us. He should only create policies that allows everyone reasonable access to that yellow brick road, but he can never void the hard work and sweat equity that success requires as payment.

Quote

Many of us are unhappy about our worsening economic problems, about the constant crisis atmosphere in our foreign policy, about our diminishing prestige around the globe, about the weakness in our economy and national security that jeopardizes world peace, about our lack of strong, straight-forward leadership.

And many Americans today, just as they did 200 years ago, feel burdened, stifled and sometimes even oppressed by government that has grown too large, too bureaucratic, too wasteful, too unresponsive, too uncaring about people and their problems.

Americans, who have always known that excessive bureaucracy is the enemy of excellence and compassion, want a change in public life—a change that makes government work for people. They seek a vision of a better America, a vision of society that frees the energies and ingenuity of our people while it extends compassion to the lonely, the desperate, and the forgotten. —Ronald Reagan 11/03/1980

http://www.presidenc...u/ws/?pid=85199

It's chilling that Ronald Reagan spoke these words on 11/03/1980 and here we are with bigger government, woefully inadequate political leadership, and more intimidating, worrisome problems on 09/25/2017.

Stay tuned for the next episode.
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#7443 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 15:32

View Postjjbrr, on 2017-September-25, 12:04, said:

Kris Kobach has been sued by the ACLU 4 times for voter suppression. ACLU won all 4 cases.

He's the real fraud, here.


Yes, but keep in mind that the followers of Breitbart are only going to get part of the story - the part that makes it sound as if their false narrative is true. Who is going to take the trouble to fill in the details - and what readers of Breitbart are going to bother with details that disprove the narrative?

I again say that a forceful, organized and continual condemnation of this kind of fake news by explaining in detail its lies is absolutely a necessity.
If something cannot go on forever, it will stop. - Herb Stein
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#7444 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 15:59

Liberal tears and fake news, Winston.
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#7445 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 16:07

View Postjjbrr, on 2017-September-25, 15:59, said:

Liberal tears and fake news, Winston.


The question to me is this: how can we introduce the Breitbart audience to facts and details that would make them at least wonder if what they are being told by Brietbart is true?

I know you are bright. What do you think?
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#7446 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 16:26

Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

This shows there are layers upon layers upon layers to be unwound. RICO anyone?

Quote

Steve Bannon plotted to plant a mole inside Facebook, according to emails sent days before the Breitbart boss took over Donald Trump’s campaign and obtained by BuzzFeed News.

The email exchange with a conservative Washington operative reveals the importance that the giant tech platform — now reeling from its role in the 2016 election — held for one of the campaign’s central figures

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#7447 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 16:54

View PostWinstonm, on 2017-September-25, 16:07, said:

The question to me is this: how can we introduce the Breitbart audience to facts and details that would make them at least wonder if what they are being told by Brietbart is true?

I know you are bright. What do you think?


Seems rather simple to me. Take their bibles away.
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#7448 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 17:44

Quote

BY HEDRICK SMITH
Special to McClatchy

SEPTEMBER 20, 2017 10:17 AM

WASHINGTON
Riding a tide of tax cuts and rising profits over four decades, the captains of corporate America have shifted $1 trillion each year from the paychecks of middle class Americans into massive payoffs to Wall Street investors and to CEO and executive pay. And now they want you to believe, once again, that cutting corporate taxes will benefit average workers.

Matched against history, that’s a hollow claim bordering on economic fake news. Factually, it flies in the face of the performance over the past 40 years of American business, which has generated what Citibank called the greatest inequality of income in any major nation since 16th century Spain – that is, over the past 500 years.


I suppose for supply-siders, this is more fake news.
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#7449 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 18:05

https://www.nytimes....ll.html?mcubz=3

Just to be clear. Our military is getting a $700 billion budget for FY2018 which is 70% of the double-stacked pallets of $100 bills in the image below.

Oh yeah, and a final note, a bureaucracy that receives about $700 billion ANNUALLY can not provide "clean" financial statements that its own internal auditors will approve. This has occurred for the last 17 years. That is, the financial statements are unreliable since the Department of Defense's internal controls over financial reporting have too many material weaknesses to be in conformity with governmental accounting standards.

Just wow.

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#7450 User is online   y66 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 19:29

Did this ever get posted here? Perhaps it was considered obvious. Saw it today in a story about Anthony Weiner.

The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election. So why won’t the media admit as much? By Nate Silver

Filed under The Real Story Of 2016. Published May 3, 2017
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again. Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#7451 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 20:30

A little clarification of the legality of using private e-mails in the WH. From NYT: (emphasis added)

Quote

WASHINGTON — At least six of President Trump’s closest advisers occasionally used private email addresses to discuss White House matters, current and former officials said on Monday.

The disclosures came a day after news surfaced that Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and adviser, used a private email account to send or receive about 100 work-related emails during the administration’s first seven months. But Mr. Kushner was not alone. Stephen K. Bannon, the former chief White House strategist, and Reince Priebus, the former chief of staff, also occasionally used private email addresses. Other advisers, including Gary D. Cohn and Stephen Miller, sent or received at least a few emails on personal accounts, officials said.

Ivanka Trump, the president’s elder daughter, who is married to Mr. Kushner, used a private account when she acted as an unpaid adviser in the first months of the administration, Newsweek reported Monday. Administration officials acknowledged that she also occasionally did so when she formally became a White House adviser. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter with reporters.

Officials are supposed to use government emails for their official duties so their conversations are available to the public and those conducting oversight. But it is not illegal for White House officials to use private email accounts as long as they forward work-related messages to their work accounts so they can be preserved.

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#7452 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2017-September-25, 20:45

View Posty66, on 2017-September-25, 19:29, said:

Did this ever get posted here? Perhaps it was considered obvious. Saw it today in a story about Anthony Weiner.

The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election. So why won't the media admit as much? By Nate Silver

Filed under The Real Story Of 2016. Published May 3, 2017


I certainly think the Comey letter had a major, probably a decisive, impact. But let me present an analogy, trigger warning it is a little morbid.

My mother died of cancer. That's true. It is also true that she had been smoking for 40+ years. You see my point? There are proximate causes and long term causes.

By that time in the campaign, there should have been no undisclosed emails on the Weiner computer for Comey to write a letter about. The immediate cause was the Comey letter. But that should not have been possible as an immediate cause.

I have argued before that part of what we see in a campaign is the ability of the candidate to deal effectively with troubles. On this, and on similar matters, she did not look good.



It is truly important to understand just how things went so badly wrong.


Here is another aspect. We were watching the news tonight when they were speaking of the Kurdish vote, a referendum on separate statehood. I asked Becky: "Do you think one in a hundred Americans can say what makes a Kurd a Kurd?". I don't know, Becky didn't know, I doubt that my bridge partner of today would know or my next door neighbors know or my daughters know. Of course I could look it up. I wish the best for the Kurds, the Iraqis, the Turks, the Syrians, and all that are involved in this problem but my understanding of it is weak. I not only acknowledge that I insist it is so.


So people do not really choose whom to vote for based on a position paper regarding Kurds. They do notice whether the candidate is or is not able to solve a problem. People see the email problem come up again and they say "I thought she took care of this. I guess she didn't." This hurt her far more than any specifics about the emails. There should not have been more emails to discover. Not on Weiner's computer, not anywhere. It does not matter if they were copies of other, already read, emails. There needed to be nothing to be found. That should have been totally clear to Clinton and to her staff.

I am not claiming this is the whole story. I do very much believe it is part of it.
Ken
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#7453 User is online   y66 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 05:13

View Postkenberg, on 2017-September-25, 20:45, said:

It is truly important to understand just how things went so badly wrong. I insist it is so.

Indeed. I believe this is the motivation for Ken Burns' documentary on the war in Vietnam which the Vietnamese call the American War. This exchange in an interview with Mother Jones caught my eye:

Quote

Phil Klay: The Vietnamese American author Viet Thanh Nguyen talks about how every war is fought twice, once in fact and then—

Ken Burns: —in memory.

Nguyen talked about this when he visited my neck of the woods a few months ago and the importance of "just" remembering by which he means remembering with respect for all sides of the truth as a prerequisite for moving out from under the shadow of the war.
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#7454 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 07:12

View Posty66, on 2017-September-26, 05:13, said:

Indeed. I believe this is the motivation for Ken Burns' documentary on the war in Vietnam which the Vietnamese call the American War. This exchange in an interview with Mother Jones caught my eye:


Nguyen talked about this when he visited my neck of the woods a few months ago and the importance of "just" remembering by which he means remembering with respect for all sides of the truth as a prerequisite for moving out from under the shadow of the war.



What is truth? I'm thinking someone raised this question before regarding some other important event.

One truth is this: We hope for a leader who can handle problems that we do not fully understand and of which we have no intention of devoting months or years to develop a careful understanding. Whether we are speaking of Michael Dukakis in a tank or Clinton emails ending up on a Weiner computer, people make judgments. Not always fair, not always accurate. Actually, many of my judgments about Trump were initially based on impressions of a vague sort. I just figured I could recognize an egotistical braggart when I saw one, and I was seeing one. Now of course we have an extensive record.
Ken
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#7455 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 09:52

View Postkenberg, on 2017-September-26, 07:12, said:

What is truth? I'm thinking someone raised this question before regarding some other important event.

One truth is this: We hope for a leader who can handle problems that we do not fully understand and of which we have no intention of devoting months or years to develop a careful understanding. Whether we are speaking of Michael Dukakis in a tank or Clinton emails ending up on a Weiner computer, people make judgments. Not always fair, not always accurate. Actually, many of my judgments about Trump were initially based on impressions of a vague sort. I just figured I could recognize an egotistical braggart when I saw one, and I was seeing one. Now of course we have an extensive record.

The problem is some folks believe that truth is not absolute but relative. They also believe truth is a function of belief, so if I don't believe God exists then He doesn't.

However, this is faulty thinking. If I don't believe in gravity, I am not given the powers of levitating on this Earth. Just because I don't believe in gravity, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It just means that I am not ready to recognize a universal law that we have tested time and time again with physics and mathematics.

Just because I don't believe that objects on Earth fall at a rate of 9.8 meters per second squared doesn't mean that the law is invalid. It just means I am blocking out a scientific truth that I refuse to recognize.

Beliefs do not create truth. They help to explain our stories, but our stories are told from a narrator's perspective not from a universal or omniversal one. Narratives matter but narratives don't create absolute truths ....they create beliefs that don't pass academic, mathematical, or scientific scrutiny.

Some things we don't know in this world. And some things we do and belief systems matter, but belief systems don't create reality, they help us to explain what we observe or perceive.

While you can always create your own narrative, your narrative may not be based on facts or laws or reconcile with verifiable evidence which makes it conjecture, suspect, and unpersuasive.
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#7456 User is offline   PassedOut 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 10:37

View PostRedSpawn, on 2017-September-26, 09:52, said:

The problem is some folks believe that truth is not absolute but relative. They also believe truth is a function of belief, so if I don't believe God exists then He doesn't.

However, this is faulty thinking. If I don't believe in gravity, I am not given the powers of levitating on this Earth. Just because I don't believe in gravity, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It just means that I am not ready to recognize a universal law that we have tested time and time again with physics and mathematics.

Just because I don't believe that objects on Earth fall at a rate of 9.86 meters per second squared doesn't mean that the law is invalid. It just means I am blocking out a scientific truth that I refuse to recognize.

Beliefs do not create truth. They help to explain our stories, but our stories are told from a narrator's perspective not from a universal or omniversal one. Narratives matter but narratives don't create absolute truths ....they create beliefs that don't pass academic, mathematical, or scientific scrutiny.

Some things we don't know in this world. And some things we do and belief systems matter, but belief systems don't create reality, they help us to explain what we observe or perceive.

While you can always create your own narrative, your narrative may not be based on facts or laws or reconcile with verifiable evidence which makes it conjecture, suspect, and unpersuasive.

I agree with much of what you say, but I see that you have an example turned around:

View PostRedSpawn, on 2017-September-26, 09:52, said:

They also believe truth is a function of belief, so if I don't believe God exists then He doesn't.

The reality is that people believe truth is a function of belief, so if they believe that God exists, then he does, even though there's no supporting evidence for it. And that sort of thinking makes folks susceptible to exactly the kinds of problems you identified.
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#7457 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 11:10

View PostRedSpawn, on 2017-September-26, 09:52, said:

The problem is some folks believe that truth is not absolute but relative. They also believe truth is a function of belief, so if I don't believe God exists then He doesn't.

However, this is faulty thinking. If I don't believe in gravity, I am not given the powers of levitating on this Earth. Just because I don't believe in gravity, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It just means that I am not ready to recognize a universal law that we have tested time and time again with physics and mathematics.

Just because I don't believe that objects on Earth fall at a rate of 9.8 meters per second squared doesn't mean that the law is invalid. It just means I am blocking out a scientific truth that I refuse to recognize.

Beliefs do not create truth. They help to explain our stories, but our stories are told from a narrator's perspective not from a universal or omniversal one. Narratives matter but narratives don't create absolute truths ....they create beliefs that don't pass academic, mathematical, or scientific scrutiny.

Some things we don't know in this world. And some things we do and belief systems matter, but belief systems don't create reality, they help us to explain what we observe or perceive.

While you can always create your own narrative, your narrative may not be based on facts or laws or reconcile with verifiable evidence which makes it conjecture, suspect, and unpersuasive.


PassedOut read my mind with his post. Exploring this belief theme a little further, it seems to me that reality is a better term than truth. The only way for humans to make reasonable assumptions about reality is through our intellect, by using reason. Our reasoning has to be based on something, though, so we look for objective evidence. Lacking that, we have only pure reasoning skills to make an educated guess based on our observations and understanding of the natural world.

With all apologies to Einstein, an observer is the last person to ask about reality because reality to him is skewed. Reality is the state of being when there is no observer. The only way to try to determine what that state may be is through reason.
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#7458 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 11:24

Btw, if there are those who still hold the opinion that an urgent need remains to teach critical thinking and reasoning skills, I submit the following as exhibit A:

Quote

Judge Roy Moore, the frontrunner in Tuesday’s Alabama Senate Republican primary, told Vox reporter Jeff Stein that “there are communities under Sharia law right now in our country,” pointing specifically to Illinois and Indiana. When asked to clarify which communities he was talking about, Moore said he didn’t know and that “that doesn’t matter.”

“I was informed that there were [communities under Sharia law],” he said. “But if they’re not, it doesn’t matter. Sharia law incorporates Muslim law into the law. That’s not what we do. We do not punish people according to the Christian precepts of our faith—so there’s a difference. I’ll just say: I don’t know if there are. I understand that there are some.”


Understand this is the frontrunner in the Alabama Republican nomination process to fill a seat in the U.S. Senate who is spewing this nonsense without a shred of evidence and then claiming the lack of evidence "doesn't matter".

And this guy was an Alabama Supreme Court judge! And this kind of nutcase being elected somehow makes the U.S. exceptional?
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#7459 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 11:47

Judge Moore is a pedophile who beats his wife, so take his word for what it's worth. I don't know if that's true. I was informed it's factual.
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#7460 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-September-26, 13:41

View Postjjbrr, on 2017-September-26, 11:47, said:

Judge Moore is a pedophile who beats his wife, so take his word for what it's worth. I don't know if that's true. I was informed it's factual.


It doesn't matter that he still beats his wife. What matters is he is a good Christian.
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