[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: IMP

p-1♦-2♣-3♦
???

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Where is this hand headed and what do you bid to get there?

[inquiry]

I am a passed hand. I bid 3♠.

I couldn't open 2♠ or 1♠, I am bidding at the three level now in a new suit. This has to be a fit non-jump. Showing ♠ and a ♣ fit. This is my last non-forced bid in the auction. I have my bid, I have described my distributon and values, and very well limited my hand. It is up to partner to decide where we are going and how we are going to get there.

[Al_U_Card]

So far so good. Now based on what pard showed for the NV 2 level overcall missing the KQ, what would he need to make a move and how would he do it?

[luis]

3♠ quite simple.

[inquiry]

Not sure, you want me to bid an unseen hand? Then why did you give us the very easy hand to bid. 3♠ here is automatic.

But I will try...ok,

1) Partner with minimum yuck and three card spade fit can pass or bid 4♠. You would have to show me what minimum yuck to pick between them. Partenr with four card spade fit will simply bid game I suspect with minimums. I would pass 4♠

2) Without a ♠ fit partner could bid 3NT, he could bid 4/5/6 ♣. I would pass each of these bids.

3) partner could cue-bid ♦, or he could cue-bid ♥. I would take a ♥ cue-bid here as looking for ♦ control. Over 4♦, I would bid 4♠. This is not a cue-bid, this is simply denying a ♥ control. Maybe partner wanted to play in ♠, I don't know. Over 4♥, I will not bid 4♠. I am not sure what partner is up to, but I have a ♦ control and I am quite proud of the values I promised. I suspect I would bid 5♣. This will show a ♦ control since I went past 4♠ which might be what partner had in mind. I consider 5♣ a "bid on" signal, not a sign-off should partner be thinking about slam. With a timid partner, not prone to making slam tries often, over 4♥ I would bid even higher than 5♣, maybe even choosing 6♣ pass/correct.

Now, do you want me to draw up ahnds?

S-Axx H- xx D -xx C-AJTxxx - pass 3♠
S-Axxx H-x D-xx C-AJTxxx - bid 4♠ = responder will pass
S-x H-AQx D-xxx C-AJxxxx - bid 4♣ = responder will pass
s-xx H-AQ D-Ax C-AJTxxx - bid 5♣ = responder will pass
S-AQx H-Ax D-xx C-AJTxxx - bid 4♥ = responder will show ♦ control, slam bid
S-AQx H-xx D-Ax C-AJTxxx - bid 4♦ = responder iwll bid 4♠ end auction
S-x H-AQx D-Axx C-AJTxxx - bid 4♦ = responder bid 5♣. you pass

[pclayton]

By an unpassed hand, I play this shows spades.

By a passed hand, this shows spades and a club fit.

[Al_U_Card]

Pard passed after some thought... (Perhaps wondering if he left the iron on?)

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[the hog]

Partner made a bad decision. He can count 6C and 2H tricks and should get one on the lead or be able to build one up. I guess he did not understand the 3S bid. Incidentally the 2C bid is pretty ugly, I prefer 1NT.

[Al_U_Card]

The_Hog, on Aug 25 2005, 06:08 PM, said:

Incidentally the 2C bid is pretty ugly, I prefer 1NT.

Despite the shape considerations, a 1NT bid would have gotten us to the right spot.

[inquiry]

Al_U_Card, on Aug 25 2005, 02:38 PM, said:

Pard passed after some thought... (Perhaps wondering if he left the iron on?)

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Your partner's pass is not an option.

[jdeegan]

This thread contains lots of erudite discourse on why bidding spades must show clubs (how convenient) and how bidding spades allows one to reach a 3NT game. I am obliged to point out that raising clubs in order to show clubs leads to a 5♣ game that is a bit higher percentage than 3NT.

[the hog]

jdeegan, on Aug 29 2005, 12:38 PM, said:

  This thread contains lots of erudite discourse on why bidding spades must show clubs (how convenient) and how bidding spades allows one to reach a 3NT game.  I am obliged to point out that raising clubs in order to show clubs leads to a 5♣ game that is a bit higher percentage than 3NT.

Eh?? Unless you are playing with a beginner, the S bid clearly shows C. How on earth can a passed hand bid S at this level UNLESS there is C support?

Raising C might lead to a C game on THIS hand; bidding S can also lead to a C ontract. There are many hands you can construct where a 4S contract will be far superior to a C contract, and you won't be able to get there unless you bid S.

[jdeegan]

The_Hog, on Aug 28 2005, 09:44 PM, said:

Eh?? Unless you are playing with a beginner, the S bid clearly shows C. How on earth can a passed hand bid S at this level UNLESS there is C support?

I don't really disagree. The way it was explained to me about a lifetime ago was that 3♠ indicates a 'tolerance' for clubs. About the only possible exception would be a hand with 3 or (better) four small diamonds and a 1 or 2 loser spade sit that wasn't right for an opening 2 or 3 bid. Not a common occurance.

Still, bidding the ratty spades with such superb club support has to be on the edge of the envelope - not bad, but not the only decent bid. The actual hand is a sample of one suggesting that raising clubs is a viable (perhaps better) alternative. To me, 3♠ bespeaks fear and matchpointitis.

[inquiry]

jdeegan, on Aug 29 2005, 01:03 AM, said:

Still, bidding the ratty spades with such superb club support has to be on the edge of the envelope - not bad, but not the only decent bid. The actual hand is a sample of one suggesting that raising clubs is a viable (perhaps better) alternative. To me, 3♠ bespeaks fear and matchpointitis.

I might suggest that you get a copy of Robson/Segal's Partnership bidding at bridge, and read the material on Fit Non Jumps. Perhaps you will choose not to play Fit Non Jumps, that is your option. But you will find that, and some other topics in that book at least intersting.

Far from bespeaking Fear and Matchpoints, 3S here is a textbook Fit Non Jump hand by a passed hand. Perhaps this is why new crowned world champion Justin Lall (Jlall above) said "3S for me as well." This really isn't even close, 3♠ is an automatic bid for anyone playing this style of bridge. And quite frankly, imho, the best meaning for this bid.

[reisig]

You don't need my agreement about 3♠ showing a fit...but I might add that 3♠ is forcing.