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Scoring: IMP
West North East South
- - 1♦ 4♥
Dbl Pass Pass Pass
I could have bid 1♥ and kept on bidding ♥'s perhaps, what is best here?
My pickup (expert) partner said I should have passed, I didn't feel too bad - we went -2 for 67%
tyia
jb
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Is there a better bid?
#1
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Posted 2005-August-18, 10:38
West North East South
- - 1♦ 4♥
Dbl Pass Pass Pass
I could have bid 1♥ and kept on bidding ♥'s perhaps, what is best here?
My pickup (expert) partner said I should have passed, I didn't feel too bad - we went -2 for 67%
tyia
jb
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#2
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Posted 2005-August-18, 10:48
It would never have occurred to me not to bid 4♥ (then again, I'm a junior, it almost never occurs to me not to preempt!)
My addiction to Mario Bros #3 has come back!
#3
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Posted 2005-August-18, 10:48
Passing would have been idiotic to say the least.
I fully agree with your 4♥ bid, you did well.
I fully agree with your 4♥ bid, you did well.
The legend of the black octogon.
#4
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Posted 2005-August-18, 11:00
You went -2 for -500 (I hope so) while opps have an easy 4♠= for -620. So wtp?
4♥ is excelent, 3♥ is the only alternative imo.
4♥ is excelent, 3♥ is the only alternative imo.
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#5
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Posted 2005-August-18, 11:13
Hmm it was MP, not sure how it was converted to IMP here.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#6
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Posted 2005-August-18, 11:50
3H or 4H, depending on how lucky you feel, is pretty obvious. At least to me.. lol.
Passing is a just cause for firing that "expert"
Passing is a just cause for firing that "expert"
#7
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Posted 2005-August-18, 12:15
4H every single time.
Peter
Peter
#8
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Posted 2005-August-18, 13:36
Hi,
4H, at worst you go for 800, in which case they
are headed at least for 600, i.e. you loose 200,
no big deal at IMP's.
There are times, they cant make anything, and 4H
will be a pphantom safe, but thats the price you pay
for making their life difficult.
Regarding the score you got: those scores are most
of the times meaningless, unless you play in a strong
tournament, what ever that means.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Edited: Missed the vulnerability and cant subtract 3 from 7,
3H is enough, at least at this vulnerability, 4H is ok with green versus
red. It's late in the evening.
4H, at worst you go for 800, in which case they
are headed at least for 600, i.e. you loose 200,
no big deal at IMP's.
There are times, they cant make anything, and 4H
will be a pphantom safe, but thats the price you pay
for making their life difficult.
Regarding the score you got: those scores are most
of the times meaningless, unless you play in a strong
tournament, what ever that means.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Edited: Missed the vulnerability and cant subtract 3 from 7,
3H is enough, at least at this vulnerability, 4H is ok with green versus
red. It's late in the evening.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#9
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Posted 2005-August-18, 13:51
It seems the forum posters have missed the title question .
Strongly disagree, yes there is a "better bid"
Opp bid 4S, x of 4h is takeout. Your expert partner seems to have missed the real lesson on this hand . If he/she is going to teach you, then at least point out the main lesson point of this hand.
.Strongly disagree, yes there is a "better bid"
Opp bid 4S, x of 4h is takeout. Your expert partner seems to have missed the real lesson on this hand
. If he/she is going to teach you, then at least point out the main lesson point of this hand.
#10
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Posted 2005-August-18, 14:01
Good point! 
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
#11
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Posted 2005-August-18, 14:11
3♥ is the book bid with 6 tricks, but I admire 4♥, since it has a better chance of burying the spades. If I had some spade length, I'd go slow with 3♥.
Hard to say whats going to happen to 3♥. It will either buy the pot or let them find 4♠.
4♥ worked out great.
Hard to say whats going to happen to 3♥. It will either buy the pot or let them find 4♠.
4♥ worked out great.
"Phil" on BBO
#12
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Posted 2005-August-18, 14:22
4♥ is fine with me (need a partner?), unless you have the agreement with your partner that you must have a trick more at this vulnerability, then only 3♥.
Let's take the worst scenario: partner does not have a single trick for you. Then you go for 1100, but if that is the case the opponents will almost always be able to score 1370, 1430 or 1440, and quite often even 2140, 2210 or 2220.
Conceding a phone number is not always a disaster. It can actually turn out to be a very good board. So keep bidding 4♥ with that hand is my advice!
Roland
Let's take the worst scenario: partner does not have a single trick for you. Then you go for 1100, but if that is the case the opponents will almost always be able to score 1370, 1430 or 1440, and quite often even 2140, 2210 or 2220.
Conceding a phone number is not always a disaster. It can actually turn out to be a very good board. So keep bidding 4♥ with that hand is my advice!
Roland
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice
#13
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Posted 2005-August-18, 16:00
agree with 4 hearts: you do have 8 of them. P will never play you for 8 hearts if you bid only 3H.
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#14
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Posted 2005-August-18, 16:59
4h was a gutsy bid, i'd probably have bid only 3... beware of free lessons given by expert pick up partners ...
...
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#15
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Posted 2005-August-18, 19:23
luke warm, on Aug 18 2005, 05:59 PM, said:
beware of free lessons given by expert pick up partners ...
...ain't that the truth!
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#16
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Posted 2005-August-18, 19:46
4H or 3H is fine Kathryn. Passing is not, but neither is bidding 1H and rebidding Hs, which woulld show a stronger hand.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#17
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Posted 2005-August-19, 03:00
It all depends on agreements. If you agreements say bid 4♥ each time you have 8card and bid 3♥ each time you have 7card, then it is OK.
If your agreements say that you (usually) follow the 3-2-1 or 4-3-2 or 5-3-3-2 rule, bidding 4♥ is one or two tricks above what you should bid.
If your bid promises that vul.vs vul. you will go down 3 against yarborough, partner might want to defend 4♠ with 5♥ if he contributes 2 tricks (5♥ would then be down 2 for +120).
So, on this particular hand, you were lucky :-), but unless your agreements with partner cover 4♥ with 7 losers red vs. red, you may be in for a few bad scores.
(I would bid 3♥ on this hand as it lacks shape... give me 74 with minor and the same honor cards and I will bid 4♥)
But, certainly, don't listen to an "expert" that says you should have passed - that is nonsense... the only question is, how high do you jump
If your agreements say that you (usually) follow the 3-2-1 or 4-3-2 or 5-3-3-2 rule, bidding 4♥ is one or two tricks above what you should bid.
If your bid promises that vul.vs vul. you will go down 3 against yarborough, partner might want to defend 4♠ with 5♥ if he contributes 2 tricks (5♥ would then be down 2 for +120).
So, on this particular hand, you were lucky :-), but unless your agreements with partner cover 4♥ with 7 losers red vs. red, you may be in for a few bad scores
. (I would bid 3♥ on this hand as it lacks shape... give me 74 with minor and the same honor cards and I will bid 4♥
)But, certainly, don't listen to an "expert" that says you should have passed - that is nonsense... the only question is, how high do you jump
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Posted 2005-August-19, 03:24
Hello,
Was it MP or IMPS ? You speak about 67 %, so I guess it was MP's (
) !
4 ♥ at MP is the right bid, IMHO.
At IMPs, you need a better vulnerability (white vs black)
Was it MP or IMPS ? You speak about 67 %, so I guess it was MP's (
) !4 ♥ at MP is the right bid, IMHO.
At IMPs, you need a better vulnerability (white vs black)
My grand mother, full english spoken, used to say : "bridge veut dire silence" !
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