[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

2♦* - (P) - 4♦** - (4♥)
Dbl*** - (P) - ?

---

* 10-14 hcp, 5+ diamonds, unbalanced (singleton or void somewhere)
** RKCB for diamonds
*** 1 or 4 keycards

What is your call now?

[mike777]

Echognome, on Aug 11 2005, 03:18 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

2♦* - (P) - 4♦** - (4♥)
Dbl*** - (P) - ?

---

* 10-14 hcp, 5+ diamonds, unbalanced (singleton or void somewhere)
** RKCB for diamonds
*** 1 or 4 keycards

What is your call now?

4s ( edit) Q ask and partner will bid cheapest K with q of trump and 5d without Q of D?

If I understand this correctly, my p has 10-14 and long d and I have big hand?

[Echognome]

4♠ if you bid it will ask for the ♦Q, ♣K, ♥K, etc in that order as we play spiral scanning. It would also have been my call, but was not partner's.

You understand correctly that partner has 10-14 with 5+ diamonds and you have this big hand.

[flytoox]

I vote for pass. We cannot find out if pd has DA or DK. If pd has DA, we should make 6D . But now we have one more choice to dbl 4H. This should score 6 tricks and will be better than those play in 5D or 3N.

[mike777]

flytoox, on Aug 11 2005, 04:17 AM, said:

I vote for pass. We cannot find out if pd has DA or DK. If pd has DA, we should make 6D . But now we have one more choice to dbl 4H. This should score 6 tricks and will be better than those play in 5D or 3N.

Why are opp's bidding 4h vul when we are trying for slam? We have 29-33 hcp yes? If we have 6 tricks then the opp are insane, oh well.

[the hog]

flytoox, on Aug 11 2005, 07:17 PM, said:

I vote for pass. We cannot find out if pd has DA or DK. If pd has DA, we should make 6D . But now we have one more choice to dbl 4H. This should score 6 tricks and will be better than those play in 5D or 3N.

Fly, you have made many posts I strongly disagree with, but this one is unbelievable!

4S for me.

[flytoox]

mike777, on Aug 11 2005, 09:23 AM, said:

flytoox, on Aug 11 2005, 04:17 AM, said:

I vote for pass. We cannot find out if pd has DA or DK. If pd has DA, we should make 6D . But now we have one more choice to dbl 4H. This should score 6 tricks and will be better than those play in 5D or 3N.

Why are opp's bidding 4h vul when we are trying for slam? We have 29-33 hcp yes? If we have 6 tricks then the opp are insane, oh well.

Who knows? You need to ask them. He might think you will never dbl 4H so he is bidding it for lead. If you never dbl 4H then they will bid 4H more freely.

[flytoox]

The_Hog, on Aug 11 2005, 09:29 AM, said:

Fly, you have made many posts I strongly disagree with,

Ron, that is my feeling too.

[Fluffy]

IF we bid 4♦ previous round was to play slam, so lets do so, if we can ask ♦Q with 4♠ ask before slam .

[badderzboy]

Now assuming opp who bid 4♥ must have A or K ♦'s most likely the A and have something like

---

for his bid, we're getting three tricks for 800

then ptr has

---

which suggests we can make 6♦ for 920.

I'd try 6♦ and when opp has rubbish just grin and bear it!

Steve

[P_Marlowe]

6D.

An ask for the Queen, is possible, and probably better,
but we have a 9 card fit, and they have all the hearts,
so the Queen will be on board and you play MP.

And if I count correctly, one key card is missing, so a
grand is out.

On the other hand the ask risks a lead directing double,
which may not the best thing you wanna hear.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Aug 11 2005, 06:14 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Aug 11 2005, 09:29 AM, said:

Fly, you have made many posts I strongly disagree with,

Ron, that is my feeling too.

Fly, you strongly disagree with many of your own post? Why make them then?

Matt, your description of 2♦ is not complete. What can we expect in way of suit quality? Is Kxxxx good enough? It is hard to contruct a hand where he is this bad, but you are missing a high diamond, and your LHO is probably very short in diamonds, so any diamond honors your partner doesn't have will be poorly placed for you.

If his suit can be Kxxxx, then could his hand be something like Jxx Q Kxxxx KJxx?

More than likely, he is probably Jxx x AQxxx Kxxx (move a black x around if you like). Here you don't want to be slam, as you rate to lose 2 maybe three diamonds. If his diamonds, can be very good (KQJTx) you will be happy to be in slam. Turns out it is not the QUEEN of diamonds you are interested in (he has to have that or you are not making five), nor the king of clubs (he has to have that realistically for his opening bid), but rather the diamond JACK. Realistically, how are you going to investigate that card?

It would be nice if you had a "do you have good trumps for the bidding" bid available. Since 4♠ ask for the queen and/or club king with your spiral scan, could 4NT or 5♣ (5C being Last=train like) ask for slam with good diamonds for the opening?

I don't think 4♠ will tell you much even when you hear about the queen (and if he doesn't have it, it will just tell you that you are likely going down in five).

[Free]

4♠ for me. But don't you have any other methods to ask more information about the hand before going over to minorwood???

[luis]

If I can check about 6 or 5 diamonds then I check it, 4♠ what's the problem?

[FrancesHinden]

I wouldn't have responded 4D.
Couldn't I have found out more about his "unbalanced" hand first? Such as, how many diamonds, where is the singleton, what outside shape he has?

[han]

4S for me too.

Pass was tempting for a moment, then the moment passed.

Badderzboy, slam is 1370, have to set it a lot of tricks.

[awm]

Agree with 4♠. Actually I think 6♦ is a reasonable shot, if the heart bidder has KQJ as seems likely then we are missing very few high card points outside the heart suit.

[Double !]

inquiry, on Aug 11 2005, 08:00 AM, said:

Turns out it is not the QUEEN of diamonds you are interested in (he has to have that or you are not making five), nor the king of clubs (he has to have that realistically for his opening bid), but rather the diamond JACK. Realistically, how are  you going to investigate that card?

I don't think 4♠ will tell you much even when you hear about the queen (and if he doesn't have it, it will just tell you that you are likely going down in five).

Yep. The Jack (knave) is a potentially crucial card.

I agree, FWIW. Need to know more about suit quality required for this 2D opener. To be honest, I am concerned about potential trump losers (or everything could be onside, making 7.)

[LukeG]

Bid 4♠ asking for trump queen and side kings. If partner bids 5♦ I'll pass. If partner has the queen I'll bid 6NT if he has the ♥K, 6♦ otherwise.

[Echognome]

Scoring: MP

---

Ben's point about style was definitely relevant. Although we had limited openings allowing a bit more leeway, we had agreed not to open grotty 10 or 11 counts with wasted values. Since I was your partner, you could be sure it was worth opening the hand.

I had a problem too as I had a way to show 2 or 3 keycards with a useful void, but not 1. So I chose to just show my one keycard and then decide if I would raise partner from 5 to 6 if he signed off. However, I didn't get the chance when he passed!

However, for those that bid 6, all would depend on the lead. If East lead his partner's hearts, 6♦ would make. However, if he lead a club, then it could go off. Still, I'm fairly certain that +100 was not a very good score for us.