[Double !]

I was just wondering exactly what Deep Finesse does, and how it works. When I've accessed it from the sign-on screen (from Open Bridge Movie"), all it did was replay the hand. Is it supposed to do more? If so, what and how do I access the "more"? Am I supposed to stop the play at some point and try a different line from that point on, or what?

Thanks in advance.

DHL

[mike777]

Double !, on Aug 9 2005, 03:18 PM, said:

I was just wondering exactly what Deep Finesse does, and how it works. When I've accessed it from the sign-on screen (from Open Bridge Movie"), all it did was replay the hand. Is it supposed to do more? If so, what and how do I access the "more"? Am I supposed to stop the play at some point and try a different line from that point on, or what?

Thanks in advance.

DHL

Ditto, I never did get the darn thing to work for me.

[Trumpace]

I think Fred has already answered questions similar to this.

His answer (which I remember, might not be what he said exactly): "We are fortunate to have Deep Finesse because the author has obliged. We cannot provide the full capability (of deep finesse) to stop hands in the middle of a trick and analyze different lines of play. Check out www.deepfinesse.com".

[Double !]

after looking at the demo, I don't believe we have most of the necessary options needed to run the program.

[luke warm]

the part of the program the author has supplied (free, i might add) works perfectly every time, tho i find myself using it too often

[mink]

Double !, on Aug 9 2005, 09:18 PM, said:

I was just wondering exactly what Deep Finesse does, and how it works. When I've accessed it from the sign-on screen (from Open Bridge Movie"), all it did was replay the hand. Is it supposed to do more? If so, what and how do I access the "more"? Am I supposed to stop the play at some point and try a different line from that point on, or what?

Deep finesse performs a double-dummy analysis of the hand each time you click to DF button. Eventually this may take some time. When finished, the player on lead gets his cards marked green or red. Green mean playing this card will win for this player and red means this card will lose for this player, as long as all subsequent action is error-free. You can access DF from BBO if you are reviewing hands offline, kiebitzing or at a teaching table. When reviewing hands offline, you can replay the hand, but this is not a feature of DF, but a BBO feature. As it is not possible to deviate from the original path these players followed, you cannot explore different lines.

With the stand-alone Version of DF, however, you are perfectly able to try different approaches and undo cards or restart from the beginning, thus you have a tool to analyze a hand in detail. But you have to purchase it.

Karl

[Brandal]

luke warm, on Aug 9 2005, 05:52 PM, said:

the part of the program the author has supplied (free, i might add) works perfectly every time, tho i find myself using it too often

When I click the DF button only some red and green
marks come up under each card,then nothing.....

[pigpenz]

Deep Finesse is a commercial program that provides double dummy analysis.
Usually somewhere in a hand a crossroads is reached where the play of a particular card determines the fate of the declarer or defender...it is verly good for this

[Free]

The DF functionality in BBO is just to show if the contract will make playing a certain card. It checks all cards seperatly when all players play the best possible way, and if the contract makes it shows green, otherwise red. That's all.

DF is a commercial product, and BBO gets a little of its functionality for free. I don't know what it's capable of in full version...

[DenisO]

Brandal, on Aug 10 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

When I click the DF button only some red and green
marks come up under each card,then nothing.....

Green for declarer means he can make if he plays a green card; red he cannot.

Similarly for defender - green means he can beat the contract - red he cannot.

That is what you get for free with BBO and very useful it is during live Vugraph.

With the full version, you input any hand and contract you like .Then you go through the play trick by trick and DF will tell which cards will let you make. You can modify the contract, declarer etc. It's never been known to fail AFAIK - truly a superb piece of software and a steal at $40 or that's what it cost when I got it a few years ago.

[CarlRitner]

DenisO, on Aug 10 2005, 11:56 AM, said:

It's never been known to fail AFAIK - truly a superb piece of software and a steal at  $40 or that's what it cost when I got it a few years ago.

Supposedly it cannot fail, since it does not "calculate or estimate" the best result or best contract, but actually plays out all possible combinations and tests each unique branch on the search tree. I say "supposedly" because if the software is buggy than there can be errors. However, it's safe at this point to say Deep Finesse is faultless.

There is a similar double dummy solver built into GIB which at one time was faster than anything else commercially available. I have no idea where the speed contest stands.

Cheers,

Carl
ACBL Library Books

[Rain]

The way to replay hands with the aid of DF analysis is to open a teaching table and load the board onto it. Then you can use DF to analyses and replay to your heart's content.

[EarlPurple]

Jack's DD solver is better because it will tell you exactly how many tricks are made with each play, not just whether or not the contract is making.

Usually good to know when someone has sacrificed and is obviously going down to know exactly by how many.

I would like to see the ability to have "plug-ins" (which you may have to pay for) to add extra functionality. For example, if I have the right plug-in, it will put a number on each card telling me how many tricks will be made with that play.

[pigpenz]

Fred used to have in Bridge Base iii A suit information button that would tell you what the percentages were of how a suit would break by cards, and you could see how the %'s changed as each card was played.

[inquiry]

EarlPurple, on Aug 11 2005, 05:22 PM, said:

Jack's DD solver is better because it will tell you exactly how many tricks are made with each play, not just whether or not the contract is making.
ay.

I used the jack demo on an incredible fast machine and it crawled. Now it was the demo version, and it predates the new release.... but tell me this, how fast is JACK;s similiation. DF is instantanous (or nearly so) within BridgeVu... why is Jack so slow?

Ben

[DenisO]

inquiry, on Aug 11 2005, 10:40 PM, said:

... why is Jack so slow?

Ben

The full version of Jack is fast - *very* fast - almost instantaneous par results and dummy dummy analysis. Also Jack is a very fast card player - unlike the full version of GIB which can be painfully slow when it's thinking time is set to give a reasonable standard of card play.

Denis

[Gerben42]

It is much easier to be able to throw away all the irrelevant lines if you have a specified goal (make the contract). Jack has much more work to do, not only is it checking all the denominations from all declarers, for every such problem it has to check: can I make 13 tricks? If no, can I make 12 tricks? etc.